Swarm cells actually "pups"?

[Jessaboo]

I'm a newbie so forgive me if I get terminology wrong.

Short background - bought a nuc which is about 1 month old for me. Found marked queen dead (weird story). Did have one capped swarm cell and I'm about 50% certain I spotted a queen about a week ago but no eggs.

As of Sunday - still no eggs. Did not re-spot the queen. No larvae left (last of the drones have hatched) but brood frames nice and cleaned out with capped honey in the corners. No pollen stores. I am not hearing the "queenless" buzz I have seen you all describe and they are not overly aggressive which keeps me hopeful I just don't have "eyes" for the queen yet.

However - here comes the question - the capped swarm cell is gone (either killed by the assumed queen or swarmed when I didn't know it?) but there are at least 3-4 new swarm cells made. How can I have swarm cells with no eggs?

I asked a beekeeper I trust who told me that these are not real swarm cells but are sometimes called "pups" (I think that's what he said) and that they are sometimes built by workers to stimulate a new queen to begin laying eggs (or trick her into it maybe?). We were talking about many things and I didn't get back to asking him more about this.

Just wondering if anyone else has experience with this and where I might be able to find more info about it. I have some basic books but none address this phenomena. I am wondering how long I should expect to see them around?

While I'm at it, here are some pics - first of one of some funky comb building (I could use help with this too?!), second of some festooning and last of the "pups"

Thanks Beemaster for letting me post pics!

[Greg Peck]

I believe they are called cups.  From what I have read and observed the bees will build them but not necessarily ever use them unless then need to for what ever reason. I find them often with no eggs in them so I leave them. I dont know for sure if that is right but it seamed to work so far.

[JP]

Jess, if the queen was killed, some of your cells or cups as you are calling them could be supercedure cells, and you may have seen the "new virgin queen" the other day. She will need time to mate and re-enter, and start laying, this process takes 2-3 weeks.

How many of your frames are fully drawn out? Describe your set up. Is everything still contained in the nuc?

Don't forget you need to give them space to expand or they will swarm out on you.

The bees look healthy.


...JP

[Jerrymac]

Picture number one? Did you have foundation, starter strip, anything?

[Jessaboo]

Hi guys -

I am beet red - of course he said "cups" not "pups"!! That makes sense.

JP - to answer your questions first - I am out of the nuc and into a deep. I started with a 5 nuc that was absolutely PACKED with bees and a marked queen. When I got them they already had a swarm cell so I moved them to a deep 10 right away. They have since drawn out and packed with honey one whole frame and, as of today, drawn out and started filling with nectar a 2nd. The funky frame is the third one they are drawing. So, I have 2 frames not drawn at all and 1 that they just started. When I peeked at them today, they seem to be putting nectar into the brood cells they had cleaned out. I suppose that does not bode well for a laying queen.

I did not spot a queen again today.

I have not seen eggs in this hive ever. When I recvd it there was some capped and uncapped brood but no eggs. There is now NO brood (and no mites, I might add!) I found the marked queen dead on 4/27. I think that there was a little chance that there was time for them to make a new queen but it was probably a slim margin - and if there was even a virgin queen, wouldn't she be laying at this point?

I am thinking of getting a second nuc that is queen right and combining the two. I figure that might help make up for "lost time" this season and give me a nearly full hive.

And to answer Jerrymac - I have wax foundation in there but the nuc frames were almost "overbuilt" so I think the spacing is off a bit. I am not familiar with the starter strips and I've seen them mentioned a few times. Do you use them and how do they compare to using foundation?

Thanks for helping me out.

- Jess

[JP]

Jess, the entire affair could take 3 weeks for a virgin to lay, once hatched, then mated. It hasn't been quite 3weeks yet.


...JP

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm