Plastic Problems

[DavePaulson]

Two out of six of my hives have refused to move up into the supers. One swarmed and one was ready to (over 20 queen cells) when I spilt them Wednesday. I started them on drawn comb and added supers of new plastic about a month ago. There were almost no bees in the supers. The bottom box of the one that hadn't swarmed was as packed with bees, as many as I have ever seen and over twenty queen cells, yet only a few hundred in the supers. These are first year queens.

[wtiger]

Last year I never had much luck with getting the bees to draw plastic.  Even with copious amounts of syrup both fed to them and sprayed on the frames they didn't want to draw it the out.  This year I cut them down into 1/2 inch starter strips and jammed them into the top groove.  They worked very well as starter strips.

Just let me clarify they did draw it out, but they were very slow about it.

[Janemma]

Have you tried painting on extra wax?  For my packages I melted down natural wax and painted that haphazardly onto the Pierco frames and the sprayed the frames liberally with syrup JUST before the bees were installed.  Pierco don't seem to put enough wax on their frames so it was recommended to me to add more wax.  I have heard from other beeks that it isn't necesssary though

However with my swarm that I installed last week I didn't have time to paint the frames with wax so I just sprayed them liberally with syrup before installing the bees.  I didn't have any drawn comb for them though so they were going straight to the Pierco......I have no idea where the swarm had come from. 

Both the packages and the swarm have drawn on the Pierco beautifully.  So again this shows that painting extra wax isn't necessary but it didn't hurt either....might be worth trying...

[Robo]

You need to have some drawn comb or something in the super to lure them up there.   Your best bet would be to checkerboard.

[derrick1p1]

I've not had much success with plastic frames this year or last.  I've decided to go foundationless from now on.  Bees prefer to draw for themselves over using foundation that we supply them.

[Robo]

Bees prefer to draw for themselves over using foundation that we supply them.

They sure do,  right into adjacent frame space :(

[Brian D. Bray]

I've not had much success with plastic frames this year or last.  I've decided to go foundationless from now on.  Bees prefer to draw for themselves over using foundation that we supply them.

Plastic frames need a lot of TLC before the bees will work them which includes giving them a thorough airing, painting on an extra coat of 2 of wax, spraying the frames with simple syrup before installing them into the frames, and not using queen excluders until after they have started working several frames.

I've started packages on foundationless frames and had them draw it out without making a mess of it, I did not use foundationless frames and frames with foundation in the same box--that seems to make the bees choose which they prefer and they ignore the other, which results in bridge, burr, or over depth comb.

[derrick1p1]

Bees prefer to draw for themselves over using foundation that we supply them.

They sure do,  right into adjacent frame space :(

Anyone else foundationless?  Any success? If so, would like to hear any tips you might have. Tillie and a couple other beeks I know have had success with it...although, they do occasionally draw some 'funky' comb, but doesn't seem to be too often. 

[wtiger]

The main problem I've seen with foundationless is if you put an uncapped honey frame next to an empty they just draw out the uncapped honey frame into the adjacent frame, but they seem to do this with foundation or plastic also.  The comb can be a little funky with foundationless at times, you just need to follow a slightly different set of rules to us it best.  I wouldn't say they draw frames any worse than with foundation.  They just draw it a little differently.

[Robo]

Tillie and a couple other beeks I know have had success with it...although, they do occasionally draw some 'funky' comb, but doesn't seem to be too often. 

Yes, I have had some success with it too,  but I emphasize some.  I'm not trying to start a great debate,  but those promoting foundationless seem to highlight the positives and neglect the negatives.  The only way I can get consistent results is to place the foundationless frame between 2 drawn frames of brood.  Even then at times they will overdraw the adjacent frames.  I have had no success with foundationless in honey supers.  I'm not a proponent of foundation, and understand the reasoning behind natural comb,  but you can consistently get good comb with foundation, something I have not been able to do with foundationless.

[saskbeeman]

Three rules with plastic foundation:
1) It MUST be wax coated (factory wax coated works fine)
2) Frames of foundation should be spaced with comb in between. If you have no comb left and you need to add a full box of foundation, pull 3 frames from the box below, space 3 foundation in there, and move the 3 frames up.
3) There needs to be a honey flow on, or the bees will ignore it.
If all these conditions are met, your bees should draw beautiful comb on plastic foundation :) .

[Michael Bush]

Anyone else foundationless?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesfoundationless.htm

Any success?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnaturalcell.htm

>The main problem I've seen with foundationless is if you put an uncapped honey frame next to an empty they just draw out the uncapped honey frame into the adjacent frame, but they seem to do this with foundation or plastic also.

Exactly.  They do it with any kind of foundation or lack of it.

>The comb can be a little funky with foundationless at times

And just as often with foundation.

Some bees just build funky comb no matter what you give them and some draw beautiful comb no matter what you DON'T give them.