Capped honey in brood boxes

[farmerjohn]

I have a hive that has two deep hive bodies for brood rearing.  The top brood box has several frames of fully capped honey.  I am thinking of removing those frames and replacing them with frames with foundation to provide room for growth.  I do not have an extractor, so I am thinking that I can put those capped frames in the freezer to kill parasites and store the honey until I am ready to extract it.  Any ideas?

[Kathyp]

if the honey is to the outside of the boxes, that's where it belongs. if it's not, you can put it there.  move some down and to the outside positions if you need room in the top box.   you probably want to leave it unless you are running out of brood space.  the bees will need it over the winter.  you want them to store their own stuff before you take for yourself.  if they are filling the brood boxes with honey, maybe it's time to put honey supers on for you?

if you go into your profile, you can put your location.  then we can give you area specific info.

[farmerjohn]

Thanks for the profile tip, I completely overlooked that stuff.

The girls have filled and capped frames on both sides of the hive body.  They started filling brood space in the top frames.  BTW, this hive swarmed first week of May.  And the hive does have a honey super installed and its been there since April.

So would it hurt the honey to freeze it until I can extract it?  Or could I freeze it overnight to kill parasites and then take it out and store at room temp in my house?

[Kathyp]

do you have a queen excluder on that hive?  are they filling your honey super?

you don't need to freeze it to kill stuff.  the only time i freeze frames is to feed them back to the bees in the winter.  you should be able to store them in a cool place without any problem.  just make sure you bag them up so that you don't end up with critters in it.  i have found the easiest way is to put them in a super and bag the whole thing, but you also can lay them on top of each other with plastic wrap or wax paper between.  then slide the whole thing into a big garbage bag and put it in well house or some other cool place.

if there is uncured nectar in any cells, it may mold, but you can cut that out and it shouldn't be a problem if it's only a few spots. 

how do you extract?

[farmerjohn]

I did have one installed about a week or so ago, but I removed it, thinking it was slowing them down.  So far they have not done anything in the honey super.  All of their honey storage is happening in the top hive body.

I will be using a three frame extractor at harvest time.  I have not used any other method of honey extraction.  I have read that some folks uncap and let the honey drain into a bin, but I don't know how well that would work in an air conditioned environment.

[JP]

I suggest you put the super back on and as Kathy stated, pull some frames if any in the middle are fully honey frames. If you store the frames for an extended period of time without freezing you will wind up with wax moths.

Pull the honey and extract soon after to avoid moths or freeze.

If you don't give bees adequate room to move up they will swarm, your bees should be making honey right now, keep the supers on.


...JP

[utahbeekeeper]

Folks helping out are giving good advice.  Lets talk actual numbers.  In a typical (NOTE the use of the word TYPICAL) brood box as part of an established hive, the 2 or 3 outside frames in each of the brood boxes are used for hive stores, honey and pollen.  That should leave no fewer than 4 frames (8 total in a 2 deep hive) for brood rearing.  Any fewer than that in early June, and one might consider that hive honey and/or pollen bound.  Make a split, or add a couple of these heavy frames to a newly hived package, bag and store for fall, or just crush and strain for some kitchen honey.

Also for Farmer John . . . . I always use excluders.  I HATE brood in my supers (see exception below), especially when I am using thin foundation and planing for cut comb honey.  IF there is a flow, they will make honey!  My hives (in a grate location I admit) made an average of 200 pounds of surplus honey in 2008 through queen excluders.  This year they are again packing it in.  The EXCEPTION might be when all you have to give the hive is supers with foundation.  It is well to place one on the hive ABSENT excluder for a week or two to "Bait or Prime" it . . . . allowing the queen to lay in 2 or three freshly drawn combs.  Then, BEING SURE NOT TO TRAP THE QUEEN, install the excluder, let the bees take care of that first generation of brood you allowed them to start in the super, and they will be more than willing to continue drawing out comb above the super.

Having some supers of drawn out and wet comb from a previous year to install above an excluder does not require any encouragement to run the excluder gauntlet other than the smell of latent honey.  I just stacked three of these medium supers on each hive, over an excluder 2 weeks ago after inspections, and I can now be reasonably sure of no swarming, and of 3 boxes full by the 4th of July.  I like queen excluders.  I cherish drawn out honey comb!!

[Kathyp]

It is well to place one on the hive ABSENT excluder for a week or two

probably the most important trick to using and excluder.  also an upper entrance can help.  or turn the excluder sideways so that bees can go up the sides.

i have not had a problem with them, but i think it might also depend on what type you use.  i had a plastic excluder and they were reluctant to cross it.  i got some old, used, metal excluders and they have no problem with them.

wax moth in honey comb?  i don't have much problem with wax moth here, but i have only found it in brood comb.......if they like honey comb also, that's good to know. 

[Brian D. Bray]

Wax moths will go after combs that have had brood reared in them.  All it takes is one time for brood in the combs and the wax moths will go after it if allowed to.  No brood usually means no wax moths.  I've seen wax moths eat half a frame of comb where brood had been and leave the other half, no brood, completely alone.

[JP]

wax moth in honey comb?  i don't have much problem with wax moth here, but i have only found it in brood comb.......if they like honey comb also, that's good to know. 

Been there, don't want to go there again, yes, those mothers will infest honey frames!


...JP

[farmerjohn]

Everyone, thanks for all of this information, I really appreciate it.

Sincerely,

farmerjohn