Low Stores, High Mites

misfyredOhio · October 04, 2009, 12:37:17 PM

Have a bit of a dilemma. I have 2 colonies. The bee inspector reports that they both have serious mite infestations and should be treated asap. I have never treated with chemicals (have been powdering). Both colonies are also low on stores, so I have been feeding syrup which they have been devouring. I have purchased ApiLife VAR but now not sure what to do.

Is it too late to treat? Should I keep feeding instead?

Seems I have a disaster in the making.

Kathyp · October 04, 2009, 01:02:09 PM

you have a couple of choices. if you have a cold winter, you will probably have a brood break. that breaks the mite cycle also. unfortunately, if you have a heavy infestation, you will probably have a return of the problem in the spring. if the cycle break does not cause a reduction of the mite load, your hive will crash in the spring.

if your days are still 60ish, you can treat. you may not get a full treatment in but if you put the meds between the boxes, the hive temp may stay up enough to get you through a month of treatment.

feeding will make no difference in the mite load, but if they need fed, keep feeding. the only drawback to feeding when doing these treatments is that you have to reduce your openings down and you are adding moisture to the hive. that can be a problem.

work on getting some survivor stock to either replace or requeen next year. PS might help knock the mite count down, but it's not going to solve a major infestation and it's not going to give you resistant bees.

let us know how it goes.

misfyredOhio · October 04, 2009, 01:08:49 PM

Thank you. This is very helpful information and makes me feel a bit more confident.

So, is it ok to both feed syrup and treat at the same time? I was wondering about that.

Kathyp · October 04, 2009, 01:36:44 PM

it is ok, but when the temps get down, switch to dry sugar on the inner cover. that's an emergency option, but it's better than having your hives growing gunk from being to wet inside. i don't know what your temps or rain are like. maybe someone from your area can give you better guidance on the feeding.

don't use a feeder inside the hive unless maybe baggie feeding. use a jar feeder and if you have a big difference between day and night temps, take the jars off at night.

for next year, try to evaluate your feeding need earlier so that you are not feeding as the weather gets colder. it's a bit of a guessing game, i know. :-D

David LaFerney · October 04, 2009, 11:56:47 PM

Quote from: kathyp on October 04, 2009, 01:36:44 PM
it is ok, but when the temps get down, switch to dry sugar on the inner cover.

Would there be any problem with just going ahead and feeding dry sugar? I've been feeding 2/1 for a few weeks and they've finally put on a bit of weight, but I'm wondering if changing to dry would help them get what they have cured and capped by controlling humidity? We probably still have a month or more of mostly nice weather, but the forage is just about gone I think - still packing in pollen, but I don't see it lasting much longer.

Also, both my hives have an extra super with just 1-2 frames of curing partly capped syrup in them. What should be done with that?

mswartfager · October 06, 2009, 08:00:26 PM

I'm about an hour north of Pittsburgh in PA and I thought the weather has been too cool to treat for mites. I had planned on using Apiguard this fall, but the recommended external temp is supposed to be above 59 for two weeks and then another two weeks of treatment. I was waiting for the goldenrod honey flow to end, but that led right into the cool temps.

Robo · October 06, 2009, 08:27:56 PM

Depending on how bad the infestation is, if there is still viable winter bees being reared, you might consider oxalic acid vapor. I was in the same predicament about 6 or so years ago.

jclark96 · October 06, 2009, 09:04:11 PM

I agree with the previous posts, but remember that if you EVER want to use the super/frames for honey harvesting it needs to be removed from the hive before treatment.

David LaFerney · October 06, 2009, 11:48:24 PM

Quote from: jclark96 on October 06, 2009, 09:04:11 PM
I agree with the previous posts, but remember that if you EVER want to use the super/frames for honey harvesting it needs to be removed from the hive before treatment.

I'm sure that I read somewhere that oxalic acid when exposed to air breaks down harmlessly into water and carbon dioxide. Is this not true? Where can one find reliable instruction on how to use it?

Robo · October 07, 2009, 09:17:46 AM

Quote from: David LaFerney on October 06, 2009, 11:48:24 PM
Where can one find reliable instruction on how to use it?

The instructions for the JB200 can be found here -> http://robo.bushkillfarms.com/beekeeping/downloads/

danno · October 07, 2009, 10:41:35 AM

[quote author=David LaFerney link=topic=25019.msg194444#msg194444
I'm sure that I read somewhere that oxalic acid when exposed to air breaks down harmlessly into water and carbon dioxide. Is this not true? Where can one find reliable instruction on how to use it?
[/quote]
this is not true but oxalic is already present in the hive. This treatment can be done right to freezeing temps. If they are broodless one treatment will knock there socks off. The vaporizer is about 85.00 but the treatments cost pennies and they work.

David LaFerney · October 07, 2009, 11:27:22 AM

Quote from: danno on October 07, 2009, 10:41:35 AM
I'm sure that I read somewhere that oxalic acid when exposed to air breaks down harmlessly into water and carbon dioxide. Is this not true? Where can one find reliable instruction on how to use it?

this is not true but oxalic is already present in the hive. This treatment can be done right to freezeing temps. If they are broodless one treatment will knock there socks off. The vaporizer is about 85.00 but the treatments cost pennies and they work.

Are you sure?

After the treatment in the winter, oxalic acid-crystals are found on the bottom of the hive. This can be due to the absence of bee cleaning activity as found in the summer. Caution is therefore needed if mite fall is controlled after a treatment in the winter. Gloves and a protective mask should be worn. The rest of the oxalic acid will break down to water and carbon dioxide and will be cleaned by the bees in spring.

I found that in this repost of a commercial vaporizer instructions.

I'm not arguing, I would just like to really know from a reliable source (no offense - I'm sure you know what I mean) one way or the other. And of course it would be especially cool if it did break down into inert substances.

danno · October 07, 2009, 12:29:18 PM

here is a good report
http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/089103en.pdf

David LaFerney · October 07, 2009, 12:42:43 PM

Quote from: danno on October 07, 2009, 12:29:18 PM
here is a good report
http://www.emea.europa.eu/pdfs/vet/mrls/089103en.pdf

Still not arguing the original point, but after a quick read (good article - thanks) it doesn't seem to say if the oxalic acid breaks down or not (other than that it does during vapor treatments - 50%) It does say that honey from treated hives doesn't contain a significantly higher amount than that from untreated hives. Which is somewhat reassuring. I just counted about 150 mites from a 24 hour drop. I think I have to do something.