Carniolan and red clover

bee-nuts · July 27, 2010, 06:00:42 AM

I have read that carnilans have a long enough tong to reach the nectar in red clover. I am wondering how true this is and if anyone can testify to it. In my area they used to grow lots of it before they developed alfalfa that could grow in our soil conditions. The result of this is a lot of it grows wild but my Italians never work it. If its true that Carnies can work it I might want to try a few colonies next year to see if they work it and put up honey when there seems to be a dearth in my Italian colonies. It flowers for a long time and starts very early in the season.

Thanks
bee-nuts

D Coates · July 27, 2010, 12:15:24 PM

I've never seen a honeybee work red clover in all my travels adn observations. I do not have any pure lines with my bees but I'd bet bottom dollar that some of the swarms I've gotten have had Carni genes. This doesn't mean they don't but I've never seen or heard of any honeybee working red clover.

greenbtree · July 27, 2010, 03:51:42 PM

I was interested in this too, which is why I had posted the "How long in a bee's tongue?" question. I never saw honeybees on my red clover or the wild bergamot that I have a lot of. Bumblebees yes, honeybees no. I was curious so I pulled apart some clover and bergamot and measured the florets. A floret is the little individual flowers that make up the flower head. I used white clover as a control, sort of, since I knew the honeybees worked that.

White clover - whole floret is 2/8th of an inch long. Closed tube part where nectar is, 1/8th.
Red clover - Closed tube part 3/8th of an inch long.
Wild Bergamot - Closed tube part 5/8th of an inch long.

I guess that explains why I never see honeybees on the bergamot.
I had also questioned when the dearth is here in Iowa, and I am beginning to think it is now.

You know you have the beekeeping bug bad when you worry about your bees and have a dream that the locust trees are blooming out of season during the dearth... :-D

JC

annette · July 27, 2010, 09:25:07 PM

I have tons of red clover around here and the bees work it very sporadically. This year I saw them on the clover more than any other year. So yes they do forage on the red clover around here, but not much

bee-nuts · July 28, 2010, 03:41:52 AM

Quote from: annette on July 27, 2010, 09:25:07 PM
I have tons of red clover around here and the bees work it very sporadically. This year I saw them on the clover more than any other year. So yes they do forage on the red clover around here, but not much

Yes, but are they working nectar or pollen. I have read they will work the pollen and of course dont need the long tongue for this.

I looked today and the red clover is still blooming. I think its out there all spring and summer. Its a shame they cant work it easily.

annette · July 28, 2010, 11:35:08 PM

Never thought about that. You are probably correct and they must be getting pollen from it.

bee-nuts · July 29, 2010, 04:38:43 AM

Do you keep Italians Annette? I always wanted to try carnies. I have four yards now, only three with bees though since I moved some after a bear had fun with them. I am planing on putting a fence up there next year and just might put some carnies there and see how I like them. I would like to try Caucasian too but from what I have read there are sickly.

Finski · July 29, 2010, 08:19:47 AM

I have got red clover honey last 20 years ago, but now none.

Nowadays we have much red clover fields, and I have followed them severeal years, but no nectar. Even bumbblebees deny the clover. Cutted red clover makes new blossom after one month and it is a good pollen source when other flowers are gone.

I have thinbked over that red clover has been breeded to grow all the time. That is why its sugar content is low and nectar production low.

I looked red clover field yesterday and there were about 4 bumbble bees /square metre. It was perhaps 6 ha field and so it had 240 000 bumbble bees. 2 weeks ago it was in full bloom and no bumbble bees.

annette · July 29, 2010, 02:00:11 PM

Quote from: bee-nuts on July 29, 2010, 04:38:43 AM
Do you keep Italians Annette? I always wanted to try carnies. I have four yards now, only three with bees though since I moved some after a bear had fun with them. I am planing on putting a fence up there next year and just might put some carnies there and see how I like them. I would like to try Caucasian too but from what I have read there are sickly.

Italians, yep!!