If I have EFB..........?

[joker1656]

I have two hives, now, that appear to have EFB.  With out "medicating", what are my options.  One of the hives started the season as my strongest hive.  What a bummer.  The other has struggled from the start.  It was a small swarm that I captured in May. 

I had heard, I think on here, that caging the queen for a few days to stop her from laying eggs for a few days might stop it.  Is that true? 

I think it is EFB, because there are slimy globs of dead larvae in some of the cells.  There is not odor.  There is no "ropiness".  I do not see concave cappings, but maybe I am missing them.  I don't have a camera that will take quality closeup photos.  From the pics I have seen online, it looks like a dead ringer. 

Thanks for any input. 

[John Schwartz]

EFB, I think, usually has it's own odor. Pics would be great. Hard to tell otherwise.

[FRAMEshift]

EFB has a sour milk smell.  Of course, not noticing the smell would not rule out EFB.  EFB is characterized by off-white "melted" larvae.  The larvae look like blobs of something that melted in the bottom of the cell.  Many beeks have EFB but never notice it.

EFB is a stress disorder.  If your hive is not ventilated properly, or has used up it's honey stores that might be causing stress.  If you are in a dearth, try feeding some 1:1 sugar water.  Make sure there is a vent in the upper part of the hive.   EFB is usually not serious, at least in the US.  I think it causes more problems in England... probably due to the cooler cloudy weather.  In the US EFB most often shows up in the spring... often in early June.  Yours is a late case apparently.

[BjornBee]

EFB......DOES smell. And it can get a certain level of ropiness also, but less than AFB. Maybe not an inch but enough to start making you doubt yourself.

This year in particular, EFB has been a problem for many.

We debated what we were seeing on samples collected earlier this year. I could of sworn it was AFB. But the Holt's milk test (4 tests) and further lab work all came back negative. I have talked to several others that were hit with EFB this year.

I did not treat my one yard that seemed to have a problem. It cleared over 3-4 weeks. But I lost production out of about 75 nucs from that particular yard. These same yards were also impacted by pesticides from no-till farming. So I am not sure if the chemicals allowed the bees to not clean up what they normally would and the problem magnified.

Now that you brought this up, and there is some chatter about EFB this year, I'm sure some silent "forum hawk" is licking his lips and preparing some article for one of the bee mags.  :-D So stay tuned.....

[caticind]

I had some EFB back in June.  It's not a death sentence for a colony at all!

It has a sour smell, but if it's a mild infection you might not be able to smell it.  The clearest sign is "melty" larvae that look like yellow-white blobs on the bottom of the cell. I have a clear photo from my bout with it here: http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,28379.msg222902.html#msg222902

How many cells per frame look infected to you?  Are there any healthy larvae?  Is there healthy capped brood (EFB usually kills before larvae are capped)?  Pictures would be helpful.

There are three main ways to treat EFB besides antibiotics (which I don't think really help since the causative agent is present in normal, healthy hives):
1) improve ventilation - dampness in the hive provides a better habitat for EFB and stresses the bees
2) feed if there is a dearth - again reducing stress, and feeding will encourage the bees to check over the frames, then they'll clean out the dead larvae

I did these first two and that was enough for my case to clear up.  One day the bees started pulling infected larvae out of the hive and flying away with them.  That was a sight!  Then no more EFB.

3) confine the queen or re-queen - this has the highest impact - usually works, but better to try lesser methods first - by interrupting the brood cycle or at least reducing the number of new larvae you reduce the workload of the nurse bees, this means they will either clean out cells or check over larvae more closely.  

At the extreme, if you pinch the queen and force them to raise a new one, there won't be any larvae for the bacteria to multiply in for a few weeks, so their population will drop back to normal levels.  But you may not be able to afford this depending on the flow schedule where you are.

[joker1656]

Okay!..  Thanks much for the input.  I did research it a little more, after posting.  I am convinced it is EFB.  I sure didn't smell anything distinct, but might have missed it.  Strangely, I did notice an odor in another hive, but things looked fine in that one. ???

The strong hive threw more than one swarm, so maybe that drop in population caused a little stress.  Just a guess on my rookie part.  The other hive has always been weak.  I will follow the advice you guys gave and see how it goes.  I do feel a little better, after you all explained that it needs attention, but is not a death knell.

If I pinch the queen, and allow them to raise their own, is there enough time to still build up for Winter?  I think the small/weak hive will be a problem, so I may just combine them with this bigger/stronger hive.....or would that be a bad idea?  There is quite a bit of honey in the larger hive. 

Another possible contributor to the problem is the location.  I have been debating moving them to another area of my property.  They are in much more shade than I think they should be.  Even though we have had very little rain for the last few weeks, it just seems damp back where they are.  I just don't have the time to get a new area ready yet.  I am going to move them eventually, though. 

Thanks again for the help.     

[caticind]

I suggest moving, feeding, and addressing other stressors before doing something as drastic as pinching the queen.  You're right that it's a bit late to rear a new one.  Since you know this hive is under stress due to its location, deal with that first.  It's likely that will be enough to take care of the problem.

If you can, move in the late evening or at night so you don't lose all the foragers.