Is it worth requeening now for winter

[doug494]

I started to hives mid-may with packages from Kelley.  They are Italians and seem to be doing well, gentle (I can go in without any smoke), building comb and raising brood.  Since they came from Kelley, I am confident they are southern queens mated in the south.  I am somewhat concerned about winter survivability since I seem to be in the middle of the climate zones.  My thought is to requeen with a "northern" queen this month while everything is still going well, so that there will be time for the population to be turned over before the winter.

I was hoping to find a swarm this spring to requeen off of, but no luck.

As far as helping winter survivability,

Is it a really bad idea, really good idea, or a toss-up.

[FRAMEshift]

Local bees are better.  It is a good idea to open mate your queens so they will have genes that have survived in your local conditions.  If you want a local queen, just pinch the existing queen.  Your hive will make a new one and you will have a turnover in the population before winter.

I don't know when the dearth is in Indiana, but it's probably coming soon.  So you would be causing a break in the brood cycle at just the time when it's good to have a reduced population.  That's another good reason to do it now.  

And you can take advantage of the break in the brood cycle to do a powdered sugar shake.  I'd do it 24 days after you pinch the queen.  That will mean that all the brood, including drones, have emerged so all the mites are phoretic.  And the new queen will probably not have started laying yet, so you won't be killing any open brood.

[danno]

a northern queen is no guarantee that the colony will over winter.  I have over wintered many queens from Georgia.  I have also over winter California queens and this year they came from Hawaii.   Swarms, espectially big ones are usually second year or older queens and are most likely from managed colonies.   If your kelly queens are laying well and are only a few months old I wouldn't requeen.  Save that for next year

[danno]

Pinching a 1 1/2 month old queen and expecting a great turn out is just wrong.  This is what will happen. The queen cells will have the genetics of the original queen and the new virgin will go on a couple of mating flights.  She will mate with Drones that most likely came from  managed colonies within 5 or so miles of yours.  What are the odds that this virgin will run into a pack of feral drones.   Not much.  You could get lucky but I wouldn't count on it.  Give the Kelly queens a chance to prove them selves

[sc-bee]

Very good advice Danno ;) and it came from a Michigan beekeeper (whose winters are, I imagine, a bit more harsh than mine). Build local stock in as you go I would not think pinching a new queen is the answer. As you add find a small local breeder and build from there.
I am sure bj is sure to weigh in on this one with info on the Northern Queen Breeders Association. I am sure he can give you some queen contacts but pinching a good queen for them to raise one is very risky as stated above.

[danno]

One more thing.  With packages installed less than 2 months ago I would guarantee that you wont have a mite problem.  You have mites I'm sure and you alway will but they wont be a problem this year so save the sugar shake for next year if that what you decide to do.  

[sandstone]

I have 4 hives full of Kelley bees and 0 complaints!  Two of the hives made it through the winter just fine on open SBB and all season inner covers without insulation. The other two were hived the 1st of May and are doing well.  I think you'll be happy with them.

[FRAMEshift]

Pinching a 1 1/2 month old queen and expecting a great turn out is just wrong.  This is what will happen. The queen cells will have the genetics of the original queen and the new virgin will go on a couple of mating flights.  She will mate with Drones that most likely came from  managed colonies within 5 or so miles of yours.  What are the odds that this virgin will run into a pack of feral drones.   Not much.  You could get lucky but I wouldn't count on it.  Give the Kelly queens a chance to prove them selves

You can't get local genetics without changing queens.  If the drones are from local managed colonies, they probably still have local genes because hives swarm and re-queen themselves all the time.  Unless the managers of those hives are constantly buying commercial queens and pinching their own queens, there are feral genes there.

If you do your re-queening during the dearth, you aren't losing much in terms of hive build-up.  Of course, if you want to have it both ways, you can do a split, keep the Kelly queen and do open mating too.  But if your hive is that new, it may not be big enough to split.  

I can't comment on mites in Indiana, but in our North Carolina hives you absolutely should be doing a sugar shake in the first year.  The mites build up in the first year and peak in September.  They concentrate in the brood nest during the winter and in the spring of the second year, they can overwhelm the hive.  You want to get ahead of that population growth curve by reducing the September peak.  You can do a sugar shake during an induced summer brood cycle break and again in the natural winter brood cycle break.  You don't want to be doing a shake next spring because you will kill the open brood that is so important in the spring buildup.   I would not pinch your queen just so I could do a sugar shake, but if you have a broodless period, it is a good idea to take advantage of it and do the shake.