After a hive has swarmed....

sweet bee · May 24, 2014, 10:53:52 AM

How long should I wait before checking the original hive for the new queen and eggs/brood?

Thank you,
Angie

Kathyp · May 24, 2014, 11:55:53 AM

it helps if you have some idea of the age of your queen cells? if you know that, you can calculate when she would have hatched, then check from there. it's usually only a few days, but it can be a couple of weeks before you see that she has started laying. i think that most of the time when people go a couple of weeks not seeing eggs, that they didn't know exactly when to expect the queen to be mated. ;-)

if you are worried about her making it back, you can always put a frame of eggs in from another hive. if she didn't make it, they can start over.

Kevin Bentley · May 24, 2014, 12:23:13 PM

@kathyp, I understand that they can start over but I read an article yesterday discussing splits/nucs (at beeworks dot com) that says, "...forces the bees into making their own emergency queen, not recommended. The end product, because of feeding restrictions, will result in an intercaste queen of little long-term value." What's your take on this opinion?

Kathyp · May 24, 2014, 12:54:32 PM

if there were feeding restrictions, they might be right but...in the main, i call BS. there are some who will never allow their hives to raise queens. it's the way they have always done it, and always will.

the quality of the queen depends on the eggs/larvae, feed, workers to care for the egg-to capping, and being well mated. it doesn't matter whether you buy one or raise one. if those conditions are not favorable, the queen will not be the best.

zipping through all the posts here, i bet you'll find a lot where people are wondering why their package queen is being superseded, or is not doing well.

+ i am cheap and object to paying 30 or 40 dollars for a queen....that may well be swapped out for one the hive really wants :-). which is not to say that a queen should never be purchased. sometimes you want to or need to. i just prefer not.

Kevin Bentley · May 24, 2014, 01:00:52 PM

@Kathyp, thanks! I guess my only question now would be when you want or need to buy a queen? I'll search other threads as I'm sure it's a topic of much debate.

Kathyp · May 24, 2014, 01:08:45 PM

i would buy if it were late in the season, if i had a hive that was away from where i could keep an eye on it, or if the swallows were particularly thick at the time the hive needed a queen.
i have probably lost more queens on mating flights to the swallows, than any other thing.

i would also buy if i wanted to change the genetics in my own hives or if there were not other hives (wild or domesticated) in my area.

Kevin Bentley · May 24, 2014, 01:53:47 PM

Good info here. Never thought about swallows being "thick" and being a serious predator but you're right I suppose.

10framer · May 24, 2014, 04:47:13 PM

kevin, are you asking if queens from emergency cells are inferior? i've definitely had better results by grafting or using cells that the bees started while they had a queen but i think that a healthy hive particularly during a flow can produce a good queen from emergency cells.
a hive that just swarmed may be low on nurse bees so the larva may not get an optimum amount of royal jelly i suppose. in the end it's better than nothing and it gets the hive an extended brood break. if the queen is inferior the bees will raise another and supersede her.

10framer · May 24, 2014, 04:49:07 PM

sweet bee, i'd wait two weeks after they swarmed before going into the brood chamber.

sweet bee · May 24, 2014, 07:37:32 PM

One of my hives swarmed 2 weeks ago. I was able to catch and re-home them. I checked today to make sure the queen was indeed still with them. I checked the original hive and only saw a few bees that haven't hatched yet. It was packed with bees and plenty of honey, other than that...nothing. I did spot 2 queen cups but not sure if there was ever a queen in them. The hive was EXTREMELY loud and bees were just boiling over the sides. I also noticed that most of them had their bums pointing up (not sure if that even means anything) Regardless, I took that as a sign that I may have over stayed my welcome!:) I did add a frame of brood and eggs from another hive just in case they needed to raise a queen.

Angie

Kevin Bentley · May 24, 2014, 10:23:14 PM

Quote from: 10framer on May 24, 2014, 04:47:13 PM
kevin, are you asking if queens from emergency cells are inferior? i've definitely had better results by grafting or using cells that the bees started while they had a queen but i think that a healthy hive particularly during a flow can produce a good queen from emergency cells.
a hive that just swarmed may be low on nurse bees so the larva may not get an optimum amount of royal jelly i suppose. in the end it's better than nothing and it gets the hive an extended brood break. if the queen is inferior the bees will raise another and supersede her.

Exactly what I was asking. Excellent info.

10framer · May 24, 2014, 11:02:41 PM

angie, if you go back tomorrow and pull the frame with brood if there is a queen she will most likely be on it. 2 weeks after a swarm doesn't mean she is laying yet. young queens like to hide a lot of the time and if you have runny bees the more mature queens might be good at hiding too. between the comb and end or bottom bar is a place they like to go.