Unlimited Brood Nest - Empty Bottom Box - Should I rearrange?

[Culley]

So it's early summer here in Australia.

I have one hive in particular that is doing quite well. It is 4 deeps at the moment. There is no queen excluder. The bottom box is pretty empty, and the brood higher up is getting backfilled. We have steady nectar coming in, and also lots of pollen.

The top deep is 6 frames of uncapped honey I have moved up.

The next one has some brood, but it's getting filled with honey. Almost full and the brood part in that box is being backfilled.

The next box down has a little bit of brood, some pollen, some nectar, and some empty space.

The bottom box has a little bit of capped brood but no new brood, lots of pollen, and lots of empty comb too.

My question is, should I rearrange this hive so that the brood is at the bottom and the empty frames from the bottom box and the second box are on top above the honey?  Or interspersed / checkerboarded with the honey? Or between the brood nest and the honey? I'm confident that they'll use all 4 deeps, the way the nectar is coming in.

I am thinking I'll rearrange the frames and put the empties right on top - but would appreciate any advice or questions or things to look out for.

[BeeMaster2]

Curley,
If your weather stays warm or the hive is packed full of bees, I would checkerboard the 2 bottom boxes. If the flow is still on this will help stop swarming and give the queen lots of space to lay her eggs.
Jim

[jayj200]

you could harvest some honey now for more room or add another honey supper

[rookie2531]

Your bottom box sounds like my bottom boxes, back in our fall. Empty comb for them to start the cluster when it gets cold and some stores around.

Hopefully, your summer ends soon and mine begins. 

[Culley]

sawdstmkr,

I'm not sure what you mean by checkerboarding the bottom 2 boxes? The weather will  be warm for a while and the flow is still on.

Just not sure if I should put the empty combs from the bottom boxes up above the honey, or between the brood and honey, or just let the bees backfill and move the brood nest down? (risk of swarming?)

[BeeMaster2]

Cullen,
Checkerboarding is putting drawn frames between the brood frames, every other one is empty.
What I was saying was make the 2 bottom boxes checkerboarded with brood.
Jim

[Culley]

Wouldn't that chill the brood?

[BeeMaster2]

Not if you have a full box of bees and it is not that cold.
Jim

[Richard M]

Not if you have a full box of bees and it is not that cold.
Jim

Not that cold?????

Have you seen this weeks forecast for Brisbane?      



Minimum temp in Fahrenheit is 68 degrees (just before dawn), maximum temp is 96 degrees. And it will do this right through until the middle of March.

Having said that, the average Qlder would reckon 68 degrees is a bit on the chilly side! (But then you're in Florida so you're probably more of a Qlder too).

[sc-bee]

The bottom box has a little bit of capped brood but no new brood, lots of pollen, and lots of empty comb too.

If there is lots of empty comb in bottom box why would you checkerboard the brood? Where is the queen which box? Is it possible they have already swarmed? Any eggs present? Is it possible they are trying to supercede the queen? Also sometimes they are gonna swarm no matter what you do....
However moving all empties to the top and forming a wall of honey above the brood box is not the answer IMHO. The bees need the empty space directly above the brood box and in the brood box if still expanding. If you checkerboard anything checkerboard the honey.... sounds like you brood box is already open... if the queen is in the bottom box. And add an empty on the top above.
By the way I used the word checkerboard brood because it had already been used that way and people often do. In Walts Wrghts checkerboard method..... you do not checkerboard brood.

[Michael Bush]

My theory is that the bees will move down, but how will I know when the space is used if it's on the bottom?  If I'm down to the bottom and I find an empty box, I move empty boxes to the top so I can see when they are filled (for my convenience).  If I'm NOT down at the bottom of the hive, I don't go there looking to move boxes...

[sc-bee]

My theory is that the bees will move down, but how will I know when the space is used if it's on the bottom?  If I'm down to the bottom and I find an empty box, I move empty boxes to the top so I can see when they are filled (for my convenience).  If I'm NOT down at the bottom of the hive, I don't go there looking to move boxes...

This is confusing to me based on all I have heard you say about opening the broodnest. His bottom box is the mostly empty one. Are you suggesting move it too the top or just the other empties in super 2 thru 4?

[Michael Bush]

>This is confusing to me based on all I have heard you say about opening the broodnest. His bottom box is the mostly empty one. Are you suggesting move it too the top or just the other empties in super 2 thru 4?

In prime swarm season goals are different than other times.  In the buildup in the spring, I just want space for them to expand the broodnest.  In swarm season, I want an unclogged brood nest.  In a flow I just want space for honey.  All my boxes are the same size, so yes, I'd put it on top.  If my brood boxes were different, I'd probably put it on top of the brood boxes, but just so I can track it.  In swarm season I'd put some empty frames (not empty comb) in the brood nest to prevent swarming.

[sc-bee]

Thanks for the explanation. My season is so short it seems it is almost always swarm season or dearth. Wish I had a fall season!

[Culley]

Thanks everyone.

A couple of thoughts;

I can' t rely on weather forecasts to stay above a minimum temperature. It has been hot (where I live is often 1-2 degrees c hotter than Brisbane), but we get storms and extreme wind here, and it can be colder than forecast. I figure risk outweighs any benefit of from checkerboarding the brood.

I thought about putting another super on top, but I don't have any drawn comb to put on, so using the comb in the bottom box seemed to make the most sense. I also thought I would need to stabilise the hive really well before making it five deeps tall!

What I did:

I went through the bottom two boxes, consolidated the brood and pollen into one box, then moved up 10 empty combs and used them to checkerboard the top box of honey into the 2 top boxes.

I put an empty frame in the middle of the bottom box, and 2 empty frames in spread across the second box. Ended up with 2 empty frames in the top honey box.

Thanks again.

[BeeMaster2]

Culley,
Sounds good. Let us know how it turns out.
Jim