Spring Management planning with foundationless frames

[chux]

I am so excited to be heading into my third year with bees. Right now I have one Top Bar Hive, one Nuc, and 17 langstroth hives. Most of the langstroth hives are one deep and one medium. I am running foundationless frames. My goal is to grow these hives to 2 deeps and 2 mediums. This is where I would like to get some advise. How would you suggest I go about adding equipment?

I could put the new deep between the current deep and medium, moving a couple of frames up as a ladder. I would wait until they build most of that deep out to add the second medium on top, checkerboarding it.

Or...I could undersuper the deep, and checkerboard the new medium on top. I am leaning this way, as it would minimize breakup of the brood chamber and give more room on top.

Please give me some pointers, folks. A good discussion would help me lots. Thanks, in advance. 

[Foxhound]

I think I like your first idea more.

I think if you break your brood up, they will still be ok. I think I would wait for a warm spell and checkerboard up into your deep box. Let them build that out and then checkerboard your medium box up.

[hjon71]

I believe your second option is the best.
Bees naturally work down to fill the available space.
As long as the top box does not contain brood I think checkerboarding is the way to go. But I personally would wait until the new bottom box was partially filled and the queen was laying there before doing that.

[OldMech]

Your bees are likely to be in the top boxes right now..  with a medium on top, they may extend below that medium into the deep.  if you intend to split the brood to put another deep between, make sure its going to be WARM.
   As already stated, let them get the deep mostly drawn before adding  the next box of empty frames.. 

[chux]

Good thoughts, folks. My mentor told me not to break the brood area or undersuper. He said the undersuper would leave a pocket of cold air below the brood chamber. Undersuper is fine in warm weather. He suggested simply putting the new deep on top of the medium. Let them start drawing it out up there. After it warms up, I can put it under.

[Michael Bush]

Empty space below the brood nest does not cause a heat problem.  Empty space overhead does.  I would nadir it.  Nadir would be putting a box all the way on the bottom.  "Undersuper" is a term to describe putting a super above the brood nest but below the filled supers.  I would put the second box under the first.  When that is 80% full it should be warmer and I would pull two drawn combs up into the third box over the brood nest.

[chux]

Thanks so much for the information and correction. I had heard of Nadir-ing before, but wasn't sure of the meaning. Michael Bush, I want to make sure I'm getting this straight. First, I should Nadir, placing the empty deep on the bottom board. Leave the current deep and medium in their current configuration, with the new box below. Then, as it warms up and the bottom deep is at 80%, I should add the empty medium on top, pulling up a couple of frames with it.

What kind of temperatures would you look for, before nadir-ing? I am thinking we will be warming up pretty good by the 3rd week of March. The bees are building up, already. After this cold snap, we traditionally seem to see a climb in temps from this point.

I will experiment a little. I will nadir about half the hives, and add to the top of the others. I'll try to even it out and see what works better.

Thanks so much for the help, folks. Please share any tips and suggestions. That is a great way for me to learn.   

[Michael Bush]

> First, I should Nadir, placing the empty deep on the bottom board. Leave the current deep and medium in their current configuration, with the new box below. Then, as it warms up and the bottom deep is at 80%, I should add the empty medium on top, pulling up a couple of frames with it.

Yes.

>What kind of temperatures would you look for, before nadir-ing?

Hmmm... I'm not looking at temperatures.  I'm looking at occupation.  If the bees have occupied most of the existing space, then I need to add space.

> I am thinking we will be warming up pretty good by the 3rd week of March. The bees are building up, already. After this cold snap, we traditionally seem to see a climb in temps from this point.

Usually they don't run out of space until it's fairly warm but the nights may still be chilly.  No need to check on them when it's not warm...