Please Help Me Understand superseder cells

billdean · June 06, 2016, 05:03:42 PM

Its been 1 week from the last I looked into my best hive. I had trouble with this hive at first as I had a virgin queen. I replaced her and things took off great. Its been a little over 2 weeks now. She has been laying good. The hive has lots of bees and seems to be booming. Last week I added my 3rd brood box and brought up 2 frames of honey and put them in slot 3 and 6 of my 8 frame meds. The rest I added foundation that need to be drawn out. Today I went into the top box to find Superseder cells on frames 3 and four. Now I know they build these and tear them down fairly fast. The cells were not capped nor could I see an egg in them. My question is how long should I wait before I revisit this hive to make sure their not trying to supersede the queen?

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iddee · June 06, 2016, 05:20:06 PM

First, if you have many bees, they came from your first queen. No bees have come from your new queen in 12 days. It sounds like you replaced a good queen.

Second, those are queen cups, not cells. Until they have larva in them, they are not queen cells. Check again in 3 to 5 days and see if they have larva.

Third, replacement queens are superceded up to 40% of the time. If it happens, it is best to just let them do it. If you find queen cells, leave them undisturbed for3 weeks and then check for new eggs.

billdean · June 06, 2016, 05:47:15 PM

Quote from: iddee on June 06, 2016, 05:20:06 PM
First, if you have many bees, they came from your first queen. No bees have come from your new queen in 12 days. It sounds like you replaced a good queen.

Second, those are queen cups, not cells. Until they have larva in them, they are not queen cells. Check again in 3 to 5 days and see if they have larva.

Third, replacement queens are superceded up to 40% of the time. If it happens, it is best to just let them do it. If you find queen cells, leave them undisturbed for3 weeks and then check for new eggs.

The hive is a little over 6 weeks old. I replaced the queen on on the 21st day after she did not laying any eggs for that time. There are lots and lots of bees all though I did put in a frame of brood from another hive to keep the laying workers at bay.
Thanks for the information I did not no replacement queen were superseded at that rate.

sc-bee · June 06, 2016, 06:11:13 PM

Quote from: billdean on June 06, 2016, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: iddee on June 06, 2016, 05:20:06 PM
First, if you have many bees, they came from your first queen. No bees have come from your new queen in 12 days. It sounds like you replaced a good queen.

Second, those are queen cups, not cells. Until they have larva in them, they are not queen cells. Check again in 3 to 5 days and see if they have larva.

Third, replacement queens are superceded up to 40% of the time. If it happens, it is best to just let them do it. If you find queen cells, leave them undisturbed for 3 weeks and then check for new eggs.

The hive is a little over 6 weeks old. I replaced the queen on on the 21st day after she did not laying any eggs for that time. There are lots and lots of bees all though I did put in a frame of brood from another hive to keep the laying workers at bay. I believe the new queen has all so have time to produce new bees.
Thanks for the information I did not no replacement queen were superseded at that rate.

iddee's point... basic bee math. You said this hive is a little over 6 weeks old lets say 6 1/2 So 46 days- after 21 days you replaced the queen so 46-21=25 I suppose they had to release her from the cage and she had to start laying. Let's say they did it quick 3 day release one day to lay so 25-4= 21. New worker brood emerges in 20 =+/- 1 day. Cutting it close to see brood emerging from the new queen don't you think

iddee · June 06, 2016, 06:36:00 PM

Quote "Its been a little over 2 weeks now. She has been laying good.""

No queen has produced new bees in less than 21 days, so all bees came from other queens unless she has been there more than 3 weeks..

billdean · June 06, 2016, 10:47:29 PM

Quote from: sc-bee on June 06, 2016, 06:11:13 PM
Quote from: billdean on June 06, 2016, 05:47:15 PM
Quote from: iddee on June 06, 2016, 05:20:06 PM
First, if you have many bees, they came from your first queen. No bees have come from your new queen in 12 days. It sounds like you replaced a good queen.

Second, those are queen cups, not cells. Until they have larva in them, they are not queen cells. Check again in 3 to 5 days and see if they have larva.

Third, replacement queens are superceded up to 40% of the time. If it happens, it is best to just let them do it. If you find queen cells, leave them undisturbed for 3 weeks and then check for new eggs.

The hive is a little over 6 weeks old. I replaced the queen on on the 21st day after she did not laying any eggs for that time. There are lots and lots of bees all though I did put in a frame of brood from another hive to keep the laying workers at bay. I believe the new queen has all so have time to produce new bees.
Thanks for the information I did not no replacement queen were superseded at that rate.

iddee's point... basic bee math. You said this hive is a little over 6 weeks old lets say 6 1/2 So 46 days- after 21 days you replaced the queen so 46-21=25 I suppose they had to release her from the cage and she had to start laying. Let's say they did it quick 3 day release one day to lay so 25-4= 21. New worker brood emerges in 20 =+/- 1 day. Cutting it close to see brood emerging from the new queen don't you think

I really didn't ask about basic math, all though I appreciate the info. My question was how long should I wait before I revisit this hive to make sure their not trying to supersede the queen which some answered? Some where I read a frame of brood had 4000 cells a side so there were a lot of emerging bee prior to me finding the queen cups as I had put a frame of brood in this hive.

billdean · June 06, 2016, 11:06:21 PM

Quote from: iddee on June 06, 2016, 06:36:00 PM
Quote "Its been a little over 2 weeks now. She has been laying good.""

No queen has produced new bees in less than 21 days, so all bees came from other queens unless she has been there more than 3 weeks..

The new queen was installed 2 weeks ago and she is laying good. I never said or suggested the new queen had produce new bees in less than 21 days only that the hive has lot of bees whether that was from the frame of brood or from bees drifting into the hive when it was installed. The bees did not come from the first queen they came from a frame of eggs and brood I placed into the hive prior to pinching the queen. I had a virgin queen in the hive that produced no eggs. Again so you understand all the bee did not come from the first queen!

sc-bee · June 07, 2016, 09:53:42 AM

>I really didn't ask about basic math, all though I appreciate the info. <

And I really didn't answer basic math.... my answer was basic BEE math... big difference

Sorry if I offend I did not mean too...just trying to help..........

Acebird · June 07, 2016, 10:00:22 PM

Quote from: billdean on June 06, 2016, 11:06:21 PM
I had a virgin queen in the hive that produced no eggs.

She would have if you didn't pinch her. Once you observe the eggs she lays then you can determine if she is any good or not. If you pinch her before she lays eggs you are playing god and not a very smart one.