hive splitting

TREBOR · May 03, 2006, 09:22:18 AM

how do I know when to split a hive,
is there some signs I should be watching for or is any time good?
one of my collonies has three deeps and there is brood and eggs in each
, we are just now getting out of freezing nights and the day time temps are from 45-70 deg f.
the tree bloom has almost passed(mostly maple) but the leaves aren't out yet and the trout lilies are blooming,
how many frames of bees are needed( in the orig. hive) for a good split, letting one raise there own queen?........
many thanks
hope all is well!

Finsky · May 03, 2006, 09:53:53 AM

It depends what you want? I guess that best early summer is just coming and good hive gather honey and develope fine. You have soon orchards and dandelions in flower, am I right?

Have you winter canola (rape) there?

Nucs are usefull to make when you prevent swarming. If you split in spring hives you will loose early yield.

If you want more hives it is usefull make them in the middle of summer.

Michael Bush · May 03, 2006, 12:28:14 PM

When and what kind depends on your desired outcome.

It should be a strong hive. If you can wait until at least two weeks before the flow and you do a cutdown, you can acutally increase the yeild. If you need to avoid swarming, you may have to go earlier.

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesswarmcontrol.htm

TREBOR · May 03, 2006, 01:16:59 PM

QuoteIt depends what you want? I guess that best early summer is just coming and good hive gather honey and develope fine. You have soon orchards and dandelions in flower, am I right?

early dandeloins are out ....

QuoteHave you winter canola (rape) there?

no....

QuoteNucs are usefull to make when you prevent swarming. If you split in spring hives you will loose early yield.

If you want more hives it is usefull make them in the middle of summer.

QuoteWhen and what kind depends on your desired outcome.

It should be a strong hive. If you can wait until at least two weeks before the flow and you do a cutdown, you can acutally increase the yeild. If you need to avoid swarming, you may have to go earlier.

I would like to make as many bees as possible but still bring in somewhat of a good crop........I know if I make a bunch of 5 frame nucs that may cut crop down alot.......right?
there are some drones out of there cells and I saw alot more capped.
I don't think that once the flow starts here, that it stops intill fall....
last year I didn't see a day without some kind of flowers going on...
I guess that my early flow my overlap the summer flow and the same goes for fall.............
I'm up in the mountains so there not much ag. besides feed hay/corn,
but there are alot of old apple orchards(no longer working) and wild apples.....
MB when you say the flow... do you mean some like dandeloins are
or should I wait a while yet?

Finsky · May 03, 2006, 02:12:03 PM

Early dandelions mean here in Finland the last week of May. At same time apple trees are in blossom and many other spring plants.

That time is good time for bees. To get honey during this period does not depend only the size of hives but the age of new bees are important. Here wintered bees are all died and new bees are in hives.

I must start brood raising with pollen patty 2 months earlier if I want to get dandelion honey.

During dandelion time hives build up is fast. My opinion is that let them grow, give room for enlargement and watch out signs of swarming: egg or larva in queen cell cup.

You may see from hive when bees get honey and what means "honeyflow". Bees restore honey and they start to make white cap layer on honey cells.

You should know what is your main yield flowers. We have here raspberry and fireweed. Rape is good on fields. I move hives to better pastures for mainflow. One place does not give good yild more many colonies. My goal is to get on average 150 lbs honey.

If you split your hives before main flow you cannot get good yield. Good hive has 5-6 langtroth boxes and hives should be that size a month later from dandelion time. Here main yield bees are eggs in dandelion time. That is why hive must go on so fast as possible.

When hives are 3-4 box big they start to think swarming if they have enough job in nature.

When you hives are in full size, it is easy to take nucs or even you split one 5-box hive into 10 parts and egg laying queen in each.

To make double number of hives is easy but to get double number of customers for honey is not easy. And new hives cost a lot.

TREBOR · May 03, 2006, 06:02:02 PM

Thanks Finsky,
I think I have a little better understanding now...! :)

QuoteGood hive has 5-6 langtroth boxes and hives should be that size a month later from dandelion time.

Finsky did you mean 5-6 deeps supers for brood and then honey supers, or is that including the honey supers?

Finsky · May 04, 2006, 01:55:48 AM

Quote from: TREBORFinsky did you mean 5-6 deeps supers for brood and then honey supers, or is that including the honey supers?

Including. 3 deeps + 4 mediums is good. But if you now have brood in 3 deeps, your hive will be really big, perhaps 7-8 boxes. Who knows...

I try to use 3 deeps for brood and others are mediums (equivalent to 5-6 langtsroth).

If you hive use 2 deeps for brood, it needs 3-4 deeps for honey.

In my 3-deep system the lowest is normally for pollen and nectar and seldom queen lay egg in it when entrance is widely open. We have chilly summer nights here.

If I have hives which are only 3 deeps, I put two hives together to get 6 boxes for mainflow. When I have here good honeyflow, this size hive will be full of honey in one week. Then bees swarm or they stop working.

It is difficult to play with small hives if you have good pastures like fireweed or canola.

Here my best hives are ready for yield on fireweed pastures. I have just brought them. Flying distance is under half a mile. After 3 weeks I harvested 240 lbs capped honey from each. Capping was even in lowest boxes. (I was lazy).
http://bees.freesuperhost.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/valmis3.jpg
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