to feed or not to feed

randydrivesabus · May 12, 2006, 09:47:30 AM

will bees consume the syrup i feed rather than go out and gather nectar from whats available in the wild? does this mean i should stop feeding?
it seems like theres 2 sides being represented on forums about this....one being that when theres sufficient nectar available they'll quit consuming the syrup and the other that they just dont need it anymore. this is kind of confusing.

qandle · May 12, 2006, 10:05:05 AM

I'm new back into this as well. I've had experienced beekeepers tell me to feed them for just a few weeks (until the comb in drawn out) and I've had them tell me to feed them for several months.

The general concensus I've seen on the boards is that in general it does not make them "lazy." (But there are hives with temperments that it will.) It does really help them draw out comb.

My game plan is to just keep an eye on things and feed them at least until I've added a second broodchamber, and most probably until they've drawn a lot of that second chamber out.

And while we're on the subject of feeding and feeders I'll make a quick comment about that. I know frame feeders are kind of lame for a variety of reasons, but I ended up going with those (for now). I've got the kind where they top is totally covered and the little mesh frame goes down into the well to act as ladders. I've experienced virtually no dead bees at all from drowning. And second, being that they are at the edge, it's no big deal to pull the hive top back a couple of inches and check and refill in between real checks of the hives. The bees hardly noticed I was there doing it.

My point being is that for now, they haven't been anywhere near the nightmare that some people have mentioned on the boards. I'll probably move to some type of a hive top feeder for winter.

Quint

Brian D. Bray · May 12, 2006, 10:09:41 AM

Sometimes a strong honey flow will cause the bees to stop taking syrup but not always. But a good flow will decrease how fast they use the syrup from the feeder.
There are two reasons to feed bees--only two.
1. To give a new hive (split, swarm, or package) a quick start.
2. To make up for lack of stores for wintering which can be done in the fall or the very early spring (February) or both if necessary.
If your bees don't fall into either of these catagories then don't feed. Over feeding can actually induce a swarming mindset in the bees under certain conditions, especially when both feeding and foraging is filling up the available storage space fast. Swarming can occur unless supered in a timely fashion (at 80-90 percent full).
I believe that lack of room for honey storage is just as big a factor in swarming as a lack of room for the bees and might even be more of a determiner. The reason I believe this is that brood production is what keeps the hive alive and a good queen will keep the brood frames 3/4 full of brood all spring and summer. When nectar gathering (From whatever source) begins to encroach on the brood area then the bees will react by swarming because by doing so they are removing a portion of the excess stores with them.

randydrivesabus · May 12, 2006, 10:12:30 AM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray
1. To give a new hive (split, swarm, or package) a quick start.

and this is why i fed to begin with. but at what point do i stop feeding?

Scott Derrick · May 12, 2006, 10:17:23 AM

Well I'm new to beekeeping but I have read a lot about this subject and I have found that just like anything else associated with beekeeping it is a matter of opinion. I decided to keep feed on my bees this year using the jar method. I have kept the feed on them because the weather has been so very strange. Very cold and rainy one day and warm the next. I have found that when I have a string of warm days the bees slow down a lot on the feed but when it is cold like it has been they take more.

Since my hives are just starting out I feel it is necessary to give them as much of a leg up as possible. It has been working so far except for one that seems to have a problem with DWV and old comb. I don't count this hive as an example of a healthy hive or benifiting from the feed. Of course if I find that feeding them hurt them I will not do it again next year.

Scott

TwT · May 12, 2006, 10:22:16 AM

Quote from: randydrivesabus
Quote from: Brian D. Bray
1. To give a new hive (split, swarm, or package) a quick start.

and this is why i fed to begin with. but at what point do i stop feeding?

its a judgement call IMHO, when comb is being drawn out or when they stop taking it, when I install a package I like to feed until they draw out 2 deeps of comb, some packages will take the feed until you take it away and others will stop when a good flow starts, I have had one package just draw out the bottom deep and then start filling the cells with sugar syrup, you have to inspect and make choices from what you see, I use syrup for 3 reasons, drawning comb, spring buildup and if needed winter feeding...

Zoot · May 12, 2006, 10:34:15 AM

Ted,
When you observed that comb filling with syrup, what happened subsequently with that hive? I am have a similar experienc with one of my hives at the moment and am contemplating taking the feeder away.

Brian D. Bray · May 12, 2006, 10:45:13 AM

TWT and RandytheBusdriver
You guys aren't beekeepers you're pet owners. I take that back, that's too harsh. This time of year I stop feeding after the queen starts laying and has at least 2 frames of brood and eggs, assuming we've started them on foundation. If some drawn comb is used I feed once (1 gallon) and let them go. Bees need to work and they will follow their instincts, feeding them more than just enough to get them started means, to me, that a honey harvest is expected the first year. Although some large early swarms can do that.
My grandfather (The originator of the quote I use) when he was teaching me how to train oxen said, "Use the animals natural instincts to your advantage, it makes training them much easier." I've found the same holds true for bees.

TwT · May 12, 2006, 10:56:50 AM

Quote from: ZootTed,
When you observed that comb filling with syrup, what happened subsequently with that hive? I am have a similar experienc with one of my hives at the moment and am contemplating taking the feeder away.

what I did was take away the feeder and took out 2 frames of syrup filled comb and put a 1 of frames of foundation in the hive and also swapped a 1 of frames of capped brood and eggs from another hive with some syrup filled frames, the syrup filled frames were not capped yet so I shook out the frames and put in the big hive that I removed the brood frames from, they cleaned them up and a week later they were filled with brood...

the hive I took the feeder from was a little behind because I didn't inspect in a week, there was 2 frames with brood in this hive when I discovered the problem, the rest was filled with syrup, they ended up doing fine and drawing out the second deep.. just had to take the feeder away and move a few frames to correct it...