Drone hive fix

Oldbeavo · January 30, 2022, 05:50:54 PM

Hi Guys
I know a lot has been written about fixing drone layers, from Michael Bush, just keep adding open brood, to Honey Pump of shake them out and don't waste your time.
So we had drone laying hive that ignored the open brood frame, so our thinking went to changing the hive frames to remove the drone brood.
We shook all the bees out onto the ground about 10 yards from where the hive was. in the 8 frame box we left frames 1 and 8 that were just honey, 2 sticky honey frames against these and 2 frames of brood (1 with eggs) in the center. No original brood frames left in the hive. All the bees came back and 10 days later we have queen cells.
I know it is only 1 hive and whether it would have worked anyway but I will be trying it again.

Brian MCquilkin · January 30, 2022, 07:58:16 PM

Quote from: Oldbeavo on January 30, 2022, 05:50:54 PM
Hi Guys
I know a lot has been written about fixing drone layers, from Michael Bush, just keep adding open brood, to Honey Pump of shake them out and don't waste your time.
I know it is only 1 hive and whether it would have worked anyway but I will be trying it again.

If you keep trying I think you will come to the conclusion that it was a was of time. I would take the frames from the drone layer and distribute them into other hives.

Lesgold · January 31, 2022, 05:34:39 AM

I like the thinking Oldbeavo. Keep us informed if it is a method that works on a regular basis. Did you have a honey super on the hive? It would be a quick and relatively easy task to perform and would be worth the effort if the problem is solved.

Ben Framed · January 31, 2022, 10:20:40 AM

That is interesting OldBeavo. Why do you think removing all drone brood changed the dynamics of the behavior? What do you think is the key? Any theories come to mind?

Phillip

cao · January 31, 2022, 11:24:34 AM

I think it is all about the worker brood pheromones. Enough of it and the laying workers revert back to regular workers. That is why it may take a brood frame each week for three weeks. It may take that long to convert all the bees back. In Oldbeavo's situation, it could have been that second frame of brood was enough and removing the drone brood could have also helped, leaving only worker brood pheromone left in the hive.

Bee North · January 31, 2022, 04:44:13 PM

Great outcome...I'm sure between us we can back it up with another trial.

Thanks Oldbeavo

Oldbeavo · January 31, 2022, 04:50:55 PM

The theory was a bit of all the replies
Create some chaos chucking them all out on the ground
Remove all of the old drone brood frames, plus adding stickies with no brood odour.
Add enough brood to alter their minds.
All theory but one success doesn't make a rule. So if some one else would like to try it and report the results it would help.
Thanks Bee North

Lesgold · January 31, 2022, 06:32:29 PM

Wish I had a drone layer (not)?. I just threw out a queenless hive yesterday. No laying workers however. I had them in a double box and had given them a frame of brood but it didn?t work out. Bee numbers were falling away and there was some evidence of beetle larvae. Decided to cut my losses and turfed them out. Two frames with beetle damage will be melted down and the rest were given to other hives. The bees that were thrown out went into the adjoining hives so nothing was lost. It may have been an interesting experiment to try your method on that particular hive.

TheHoneyPump · February 01, 2022, 01:53:13 PM

Often a LW will indeed raise queen cells and produce a virgin queen, from the fertile brood given. However, she is usually killed shortly after mating and starts to lay. You would see a nice palm size patch of worker brood produced amongst the LW drone brood; with the queen soon disappeared and another cell being raised off her brood. It may work on their first try or it make take them multiple tries.
Yes, a LW situation will eventually be made queen-rite if one constantly adds brood resources. The issues advised against doing so stem from; 1) the drain on the source hive(s) to keep it going 2) the long calendar timeline to get it corrected and a balanced and productive population re-established (it could take months) 3) beekeeper time for interventions.
The fastest, least stress on bees and people, and most assured success for a LW is to completely remove the hive from the position. Shake out the bees. Distribute the frames of resources to the other hives nearby. The 2nd fastest path to resolution is to plop the LW hive above 2 layers of paper on top of a very strong QR hive. Then go back 10 days later to nuc it out with ripe cells or mated queens.

Lets us know in a month if they got it on the first try or if they are on their 2nd .. 3rd .. 4th requeen attempt.

Imho

Ben Framed · February 01, 2022, 09:09:47 PM

You post Honey Pump brings to mind the rough time Father Michael had in his quest of the situational hive that he posted of some time ago, along with the continued struggles that he endured with it. I can't remember if it had come to LW stage but per the continued rejections, I suspected that might have been the case. I can't remember the details but it was an ongoing situation. Yes, he eventually achieved queen rite but the time and effort would be in question for me as is it worth it...

I learned from you sometime back. Shake em.. I have not forgotten that advice and kept it close using it and will continue to until a new bridge has been built.

I hope Oldbeave has found that new and successful way in crossing this bridge. I look forward to more reports from him in the future on this as he is bound to run across this situation again. Thank, Oldbeavo. Keep up the good work... And thank you HoneyPump for your valuable input...

Phillip