Pics of a Dec. dead out: discussion open??

[Ben Framed]

Edit: It has been some time since we had this discussion but I am thinking our newer members will really appreciate the bumping of it.. Hope this helps someone.


Phillip 

[Bill Murray]

So, I think the honey pump had some good insight here on Nosema.  In my world I look for the telltale stains, but its amazing what the spore-count can be and still have no visual, dependent on the nosema strain.

Snapshot of 3 hives over a 2 month period

Jan
Hive 1- 5 spores (~250,000 spores per honey bee)
Hive 2- 21 spores (~1,050,000 spores per honey bee)
Hive 3- 1 spores (~50,000 spores per honey bee)

Feb
Hive 1- 0 spores
Hive 2- 34 spores (~1,700,000 spores per honey bee)
Hive 3- 39 spores (~1,950,000 spores per honey bee)

And around 1,000,000 spores per honey bee is the thresh-hold. Granted we had a lot of rain this spring, and these should be dropping in the coming months unless its N. ceranae.

[Michael Bush]

Maybe it's the Nebraska climate or maybe it's that the bacteria in their gut protects them from Nosema (it does) and I don't treat, but my spore counts ever the USDA APHIS people do them are zero.  That doesn't seem reasonable to me, though.  But they are zero every time.

[Bill Murray]

Thats interesting, I had a conversation with the person doing the labwork and they said this Quote: Some hives in the study had high infections (up to 11 million spores per honey bee)that were also not showing any signs of infection. So I personally would assume N. ceranae. Which would explain a lot for why some hives just dont do well some years and peter out. Wet warm weather in Dec thru Feb, with early building and low early pollen are the years I normally have issues with  N. apis. But I can see that. This N. ceranae is a totally different animal, it will be interesting to see if the spore count drops going into summer or if it goes up.

[Bill Murray]

Here is an update on the spore counts
March

Hive 1- 7 spores (~350,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 2- 5 spores (~250,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 3- 66 spores (~3,300,000 spores per honey bee)



April

Hive 1- 22 spores (~1,100,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 2- 15 spores (~750,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 3- 238 spores (~11,900,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 3 looks just as strong as it did in January.

[beesnweeds]

Here is an update on the spore counts

Do you do anything with the high spore count colonies?

[Bill Murray]

N.Apis : Fumagillin-B

N. ceranae : also fumagillin-B But I read a study done that claimed Thymol also worked. Ill have to look for that.

My intention is to see if the levels drop this summer.

Randy oliver has a good article on nosema, at his website.

https://scientificbeekeeping.com/the-nosema-twins-part-4-treatment/

[Bill Murray]

So the spore count just kept raising till Sept.

September

Hive 1- 2 spores (~100,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 2- 7 spores (~350,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 3- 1 spore (~50,000 spores per honey bee)

Hive 2 went through some queen issues and wasnt treated with Apivar (a thymol gel), is it coincidence??????

[Michael Bush]

The research shows that Fumagillin makes ceranae worse, not better.

[Bill Murray]

Im going to be as honest as I can here I dont just treat across the board for nosema. And if I dont see spotting I never treat. But after looking at the spore counts if you had ceranae, unless your bees were being tested you would never know. At some point the spore count would have to just get to where the bees are flying off and dying quicker than they can be replaced.

Michael Ive read papers both where they say fumagillin works and where they say it dosnt. I cant tell you or anyone positively either way because It may be past the point of no return before you even know if your not testing regularly.

What I did learn from this was the bees can actually endure a way higher spore count than anything in print that I have found. It really makes me think on things like the hives that are doing well then just gradually fade away. The ones you requeen and still dont ever get back on track. The ones going into winter looking good, my winter not yours Michael and crash.

Im talking with the Dept. of ag. to try and get them to use the lab they have to do some regular testing. They dont have the protocol for it as we speak but are working on it. This would be a great thing in my opinion.