when do I start a nuc????

[Archie]

I have never tried a nuc but I would like to try.  My question is when do I start a nuc?  I live in  southern Vermont and it has been a lousy year for bees.  I have a lot of bees in the hives but because of all the rain, production is poor.  So, can start a nuc now for wintering over?

thanks

Archie

[Brian D. Bray]

Yes, it always possible to start a nuc anytime during the spring, summer, or even early fall seasons.  Take 3 frames of bees and brood and 1 frame of mainly honey stores and 1 frame of foundation into a nuc.  If care is taken that there is fresh eggs on at least one of the brood frames the bees will raise their own queen, draw out the froundation and fill it with stores.  2 frames full of honey plus the honey arch on the brood frames should be enough to let the small amount of bees in a nuc winter over.
You can of course improve the odds by replacing 1 of the brood frames with another honey frame going into the winter once the queen as cut back her laying.

[Archie]

Brian, thanks for the info.  I'm going to go for it.

Archie

[TwT]

Archie, when you get a couple frames with eggs and young larva on it with bee's like Brian said and you may also check a few more frames from the big hive (make sure the queen isn't in these frames) and shake a few extra frames of bee's in the nuc, you will need a lot of nurse bee's to care for the queen cells and when you shack all these bee's because a few of the older forager bee's will leave and return to the old hive so just make sure you end up with a lot of bee's shaken into the nuc to ensure a good number for the nuc, watch these frames and you will be raising queens like a few people that raise queens, I know a fellow that's eye's have gone bad and he raises queens like that, by getting a frame and putting a 2 inch starter strip for foundation with no wires so it is easier to cut out queen cells after they have drawn it out completely, letting the bee's draw it out and using these frame to start nucs, then shake more bee's to make  other nuc's when the Q-cells are ripe and on the frames from the first nuc he put the frames of eggs and young larva and then just cuts the queen cells out and adds each one to its nuc that he had shaken, I have seen some frames with about 20 cells on them to cut out... OH, and by the way, when they are raising queen cells it is always best to feed this hive until the cells are capped (for a good supply of royal jelly) so you will have some healthy queens or you can keep feeding if you dont have a flow going until they draw out your undrawn frames.... Feed even if during a flow just in case of bad weather and to make sure the bee's are getting a source to feed these queen cells, and it will help them draw out any foundation frame you put in the nuc... A top feeder is the best for a nuc..... put the undrawn frame or frames against the sides of the nuc with the egg and young larva frames in the middle.....

another benefit to shaking bee's from large hive's in the spring to make nuc's is like making a artificial swarm and will help keep the hive from swarming later, this mainly works during the swarm season in your area, this will no't stop some hives but it will most.... Remember you will shake bee's to make your queen rearing nuc then shake bee's again to make all the nuc's for your queen cells...

after the cells are capped
I have seen after the cells are capped witch depends on the age of the larva takes about 7 days, now after the cells are capped I will cut them out of the frames about 5 days later being real careful and gentle so not to hurt the queen cell, before I cut the cells out I would have made the other nuc's and already shaken the bee's for these nuc's (I put drawn frames in the nucs with a frame of foundation, frames of capped brood, honey and pollen),,,, just get the queen cell and get your fingers and push a dent into the side of a drawn comb, then just gently put the extra comb the cell is on into the indention I made with my fingers, be careful not to hurt the cell, it will stick to the comb, after the cells is stuck I push some of the drawn comb around the cell comb(just bend some drawn cell wax to help lock in the queen cell ), that's just one way to lock the cells into some drawn comb, another way is to cut enough comb around the cell and fit it in between the top bars of 2 frames.... There are other ways to do this but this is just the way I do it and it works for me....I also graft to raise queens, next year I would like to raise 75-100 queens so I need to start making a few extra nuc boxes......... it takes a lot of bee's Hives and equipment to raise queens, you need a lot of big hives to shake bee's from to raise a lot of queens and make mating nuc's.....I didnt cover everything because I could leave some things out but I tried to tell most of it......I rambling so I will quit now

[TwT]

and if you dont want to raise a lot of queens and just make a nuc or 2 or 3 just when you make your nuc up like brian said, put 3 frames of brood and eggs in it and they will some time (not every time) make queen cells on all 3 frames and you could take 2 of these frames with queen cells out and put in 1 or 2 other nucs you made up and put shook bee's in and other frames in them and have 2 or 3 more nuc's.... just rmember it can take some queens depending on weather and other thing 3-5 weeks before she will be laying strong so shake a lot of bee's in each nuc.... hope this helps

[Finsky]

To make a nuc and let it raise it's own queen is not wise at all. Queen will be very small and useless.

Bye a gueen and take from big hive a frame of emerging bees.

Later give from big hive more emerging bees when yield season is almost end.

Today I made 7 mating nucs from one super.

I raised queens in that hive and they emerged all. I transported honey box with bees to my homeyard and I made one frame nucs for each queen.

To make nuc is very simple. To get it over winter needs that nuc is big enough to raise 5 full frames of brood in my country. Even if small hive survive over winter in spring it's develompnet is too slow.

Make a big nuc but don't spoil you yield season. Strengten the small hive later.

[MEdmonson]

Finsky,
 Reading your post it seems that you suggest buying queens for the 1 frame of bees nucs but then you throw me by saying

I raised queens in that hive and they emerged all. I transported honey box with bees to my homeyard and I made one frame nucs for each queen.

Why where you raising queens in that hive?[/quote]

[TwT]

To make a nuc and let it raise it's own queen is not wise at all. Queen will be very small and useless.

Bye a gueen and take from big hive a frame of emerging bees.

Later give from big hive more emerging bees when yield season is almost end.

Today I made 7 mating nucs from one super.

I raised queens in that hive and they emerged all. I transported honey box with bees to my homeyard and I made one frame nucs for each queen.

To make nuc is very simple. To get it over winter needs that nuc is big enough to raise 5 full frames of brood in my country. Even if small hive survive over winter in spring it's develompnet is too slow.

Make a big nuc but don't spoil you yield season. Strengten the small hive later.

Now I would disagree with that statement, and every queen I raised by the above method (post) turned out big ole fat good laying queens, not every queen supplier grafts every queen they raise and some of the queens that are bought was raised from frames of larva or from swarm cells and a starter (cell builder) like above is not that different from putting cell bars in a nuc than a frame or 2 of eggs and larva, these hives need to be feed by what ever choice you choose... so sorry ole finsky buddie, I don't believe that at all, done seen it done to many times and very good queens turn out,,, like some beekeepers do and a lot use to do is pinch a queens head off during a dearth so their hives will have young queens going into the winter....... even emergency queens while being feed very well are good queens... I do understand were you are coming from looking at these as emergency queens but feeding a nuc or hive while raising queens is the best way to try to ensure a good queen and a good supply of royal jelly for a healthy queen..... I make my queen raising nuc's up one day (for cell bars or frames)and start feeding that hive with a top feeder that day then put cell bars or frames in the next day.... I raised 5 grafted queens and 3 frame queens by the above method and they are all good queens, 5 grafted queens are in 2 deeps each, 2 of the frame queens are in 2 deeps each and 1 in a deep and medium.....all these queens were hatched in mid to late may........

[Finsky]

Finsky,
 
Why where you raising queens in that hive?

The raising hive had 5 boxes and it was going to swarm. I changed larvae in it's own swarm cells. I have 20 hives and larvae were from best hive. I allready have daughters of that queen and they seems to be  very good layers.
.

[Brian D. Bray]

>>Finsky wrote: I allready have daughters of that queen and they seems to be very good layers.

Which proves my point made in other posts about the quality of 1st (and even 2nd) generation queens.  

Good queens are always a good source of good queens; whether you buy them or raise them yourself.

[Finsky]

[
every queen I raised
not every queen supplier grafts every queen they raise

In beekeeping is very vain to use term "every queen". Even is you squeeze the queen between your finger somettimes you find it again in it's hive laying eggs.

Forget EVERY when you talk about bees  :P  - or beekeepers or hives

Beekeeping is full of exception  my dear professor TWT   , more than normal cases. And to me normal means the better edge.

Should I write a book "Abnormal Beekeeping for Beginners".

Most of beekeepers let bees renew their queens, but how ever if anybody ask me that advise I will say "don't do that. It is not wise".

And to raise own queens in nuc is really unwise. I have tried that tends of times.

Even in big hive which make emercengy queens the quality is poor.

But if the measure of honey does not mean to beekeeper, it is same what he does. If it is enough that hive is only alive, that is not my business at all.

.

.

[Finsky]

another benefit to shaking bee's from large hive's in the spring to make nuc's is like making a artificial swarm and will help keep the hive from swarming later,

Another thing.........

When you take from big hive 20% bees awy or something that will cut the best of yield from hive. Yield will drop 50%. So a couple of queens will be very expencive.

And if you have a couple of hives you probably not have a good mother queen.

However to hobbyiest queen raising is fine thing but then you may say hastalavista to your  yields.  People are worried about winter dying and mites   - WHY.  That is not problem. To keep hive in good foraging condition is all the time challenge. To spoil big hive's foraging conditions on purpose, that is what I don't undestand.

[Archie]

good morning,

I want to thank everyone for the replys on starting a nuc.  The advice has been very helpfull and today is my big day as soon as it warms up a little.  I'm ready to go.   :P

thanks again

Archie

[Brian D. Bray]

>>To keep hive in good foraging condition is all the time challenge. To spoil big hive's foraging conditions on purpose, that is what I don't undestand.

Finsky;
If you are a commercial beekeeper of honey your statement is correct--hive strength for maximum production is the proper approach.  But very few beekeepers here in the USA are commercial, 0ver 90% are hobbiests.  those who are are commercial are just as apt to concentrate on pollination services so the quantity of hives is more important than the quality.

It is not uncommon for commercial beekeepers who concentrate on pollination services to move their hives from North Dakota or Minnesota to California to Alabama--The equivalent of moving your hives from Berlin to Barcelona and then to Rome and back to Minnesota or North Dakota during a single season.  Large hives are a hinderance in that case.

You're advise is good and wise but sometimes it just doesn't apply to the situations that exist here in the USA.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesnucs.htm