Newbee problem. Nothing in upper honey supers.

[jeffreym]

Be gentle, first time bee keeper.  I have setup a new queen, 3 lbs of bees from Georgia this spring up in central Michigan.  Hive stand, bottom board, varroa screen, 2 deep supers, queen excluder, (2) 6 inch honey supers, top feeder, top cover, telescoping cover.  Brand new rite cell plastic foundation.
I have a top feeder that I keep filled with sugar water.  The queen looks like she is producing brood and the frames are surrounded with honey, but above the queen excluder then is zero activity.  I would think that by now they would be storing honey for the winter.  I did notice this past weekend that the top feeder was still pretty full and some small brown moths floating in it.  A search reveals that the queen excluder may be a problem.  They are trying to fill in the queen excluder with wax and after pulling it and cleaning it I notices some under developed larva in this area.  I just don't have the experience.  Any info is appreciated

[Kathyp]

a few things to share from a fellow first yearer.

i was told not to expect any honey for myself the first year.  i got some and that was a nice surprise. :)

queen excluder.  i didn't have a problem with mine, although, they were reluctant to move up at first.  i took it off for a couple of weeks.  at first, they still didn't seem to want to go up, but i sprayed a little sugar water on the foundation and they got right to work.  i replaced the queen excluder and never had another problem.  i think it's one of those personal preference things.  

you fed all summer?  where do your live?

plastic foundation:  do a little research here and in other places.  lots of people have had problems getting bees to work plastic foundation.  i know there are tricks and people use it successfully.  you probably can get lots of help here if you search back.

i found the first year to be very educational!  my next hive i will do differently, and probably change again the hive after that.  if my hive comes through in good shape, i have some experiments in splitting planned for next year  :)

[jeffreym]

My hive is located in the center of the state of Michigan.  NW of Mt. Pleasant.  I did feed all spring, summer to now.  I started with a couple of entrance feeders (bad choice) then went to a plastic vertical feeder in the upper brood super, then to a top feeder (current).  I guess, looking back, all you need is the bottom board, two deep supers, top and bees/queen.  I was expecting the top two 6 inch supers to be some what filled.  Zero.  Is the little brown moths floating in the top feeder a problem?
Thanks,
J-

[Kathyp]

i don't know about the moths, but i'm sure someone can answer that.  one of the reasons i went with the bucket feeder was that i thought it would help keep other sugar lovers out of the syrup.  i only fed late april through almost the end of may. after that, they were on their own.

i learned the hard way, that it's better to have to much stuff, than not enough.  i missed going after a swarm at my friends berry farm because i didn't have an extra super and the bee store was closed over the weekend.  :(  i think you made the right choice with the shallow supers.  i ended up with two filled and it was a surprise.  they won't go to waste.  you'll fill them next year.

this winter, i am going to see if i am handy enough to build my own stuff.  that way i should be able keep what i need on hand, and not have to worry about buying so much.

[Scadsobees]

Two problems...plastic foundation and the queen excluder.  The bees have some reservations about drawing out the plastic, and they don't like going through a queen excluder, especially if there is nothing above it (ie no drawn comb/honey).

Get rid of the queen excluder, and take off the supers.  They won't be drawning foundation any more this year, and there is no longer any reason for an excluder.

Next year, in the spring when they are building up, give them the foundation/supers WITHOUT the queen excluder, and only after they have it drawn would I recommend adding a queen excluder back in, even that is iffy.  A little brood in the supers doesn't hurt anything (depending on who you talk to....) and it will increase acceptance.  They will usually only accept and draw it during a good flow, and then sometimes a bit slower than wax foundation.

-rick

[jeffreym]

Queen excluder will be out.  Top supers off.  Should I pull the top feeder off also?   Thinking of a single wrap of tarpaper for the winter also.
J-

[Brian D. Bray]

Good advise so far.  If the comb is full of honey you don't need to feed.  You should have your hive in the following condition for a good winter come Oct 1st.  Bottom brood box: outer 2 frames on each side full of honey and the other six frames using only about 20% of brood space on each side of frame with the rest backfilled with honey.  Upper brood box:  should be completely full of stores.

If your hives are in that condition by mid-October, at the lastest, they are as ready for winter as they can get and no feeding is necessary.

[Zoot]

Brian,

I know this will be about the 10,000th time I've badgered you about this but...

In the 8 frame medium configuration - can the brood area (and, ultimately, the cluster) span several boxes for winter? My biggest colony has an enormous population and even with giving some of it's brood to my weaker hive (excellent vindication on the theory of starting out with more than 1 hive by the way) the remaining frames with brood will certainly fill more than the lowest box. That queen was still laying as of last week.

[Brian D. Bray]

Zoot,

The nice thing about uniformity, as I'm sure you're finding out, is that you can move all the brood frames to the lower boxes.  With medium 8 frames like you and I use it is not unusual to find that the cluster spans frames in the lower 2 boxes.  
If not arrange the frames so that it reflexs this.
I wouldn't recommend putting all brood frames in the same box because a cluster spread out linearly can be just as one spread out perpendicularly.  Arrange the brood frames so that the bees can cluster in ball shape as much as possible.  It might help to put the cluster on one side of the hive so that once the brood hatches the bees will make their way across the hive befor going up.

[Zoot]

Brian,

The 8 frame medium approach is definitely vindicating itself in all respects.

[Brian D. Bray]

Those who listen, learn.
I was fortunate to have a mentor who tried to cram 60 years of beekeeping experience into my head in 6 years.  
Since then I've looked for solutions to persistent problems.  The results are: 1) 8 frame is easier to handle, 2) medium boxes are easier still, 3) uniformity of equipment is pure serendipity, 4) if you're not using SBB get with it, 5) proper ventilation improves productivity, increases disease resistence, and reduces swarming, 6) Adequate space is important in swarm control (use DuBray slatted racks), 7) natural treatments are best, 8) Feed only when necessary--be a beekeeper not a nanny or pet owner.

[jeffreym]

Excellent advice.  I believe I am close to this configuration.  Next time I go up north, I'll take pictures and let you see.  Its all a bit foggy to me as of yet.  I've only opened them a few times this year.  Thanks to all!
J-