A swarm and a war..

[SteveSC]

I went out to check the hives today and on one the side of one hive there was what appeared to be swarm - about 1.5 lbs. worth of bees.  There was fighting in the hive  - I could see bees locked in combat falling out of the vent holes - there were a couple hundred dead bees right below the vent holes.

I suited up- got the smoker and removed the top of the hive thinking they had run out of room - there was plenty of room in the double deep hive.  The swarm was connected to the hive top so when I removed it alot of bees stayed with the top.  I spotted the queen in the part that stayed with the top.  The bees were all over her - piled up on her - looked like biting her - she was dragging them around try to get away from them.  

Well thinking it was a swarm  and I didn't want to loose the bees this time of yr.  -I helped them out and destroyed the queen that was with them outside the hive.... I might have screwed up by doing it..  All the bees are back in the hive now - some stragglers but mostly back in the hive.  

What were the bees doing..swarming?  

Does the queen of the hive ever leave the hive like that without be forced out by another queen...?  

Did I screw up..?  I bet I did.  I have a bad feeling about this...

Why were the bees fighting to the death..?  The looked like two distinct kinds of bees - one Italian type and the other was much darker with darker stripping.  

All the bees are still in a bad mode..  What do you guys think happened..

Thanks......Steve In SC

[Michael Bush]

It COULD be a swarm, but more likely it was a queen that was mating and hasn't made it back.  There are probably also bees trying to rob each other, hence the agression.  I'm not sure what the best course of action is.  I had a similar situation and I caged the queen and shook them into a box with her.  The next day the bees were gone and the queen was dead and the hive I found them on appears to be queenless.  So that didn't work out so well.

[SteveSC]

I checked that hive this afternoon and all seems nomal now.  There are bees going about their business as they were before the swarm ( whatever it was ) and the queen outside the hive.

Since I destroyed that queen on the outside is it best just to leave the hive alone and wait until spring and see how they all do...?

Steve in SC

[Michael Bush]

>Since I destroyed that queen on the outside is it best just to leave the hive alone and wait until spring and see how they all do...?

If the hive is queenless it probably won't make it to spring. I'd check for a queen now.  Also look for recent queen cells that have been torn down.  Also listen (before you even smoke) and compare the sound to the other hives.  A queenless hive has a dissonant roar to it sometimes.  Also a queenless hive is usually much more defensive.

Look for the clues.  If you're still unsure, it might be worth putting a queen in a cage in just in case and see what they do.  It's better than losing the hive.

[SteveSC]

[" it might be worth putting a queen in a cage in just in case and see what they do. It's better than losing the hive." ]

I've never installed a queen before.

What would I expect them to do if I put a caged queen in the hive if they still have a queen in there....?

What would I expect them to do if I put a caged queen in the hive if they don't have a queen in there and do indeed need one....?

[Michael Bush]

>What would I expect them to do if I put a caged queen in the hive if they still have a queen in there....?

They will ball the cage and bite at the wires (or whatever mesh there is).  If you leave it they will probably kill her.

>What would I expect them to do if I put a caged queen in the hive if they don't have a queen in there and do indeed need one....?

A few will feed her, the rest will probably ignore here.  In about two days they will be MUCH nicer.   In four or so they will eat the candy out and relase her.