Feeder or Candy Board

[Romahawk]

OK I have built the frame for Robo's candy board and in todays UPS delivery I received 2 very well crafted hive top feeders. Now my question since winter really hasn't arrived yet (but it surely will ) here in Upstate NY, do I put on a hive top feeder with 2 to 1 syrup and leave it on all winter or do I put on a candy board now and use the feeder in the early spring? I have one hive that swarmed really late in the fall and it's stores are nearly depleted...

[Kirk-o]

I don't know have you checked your bees if they have enough stores you don't nee to feed them maybe you should inspect them so you have a real time data.I just checked my hives here in L A its 85 degrees I just pulled twoomediums of hone and have to take a deep off saturday the drones are flyinf they are bring in pollen the peach trees are almost ready to bloom .The seasons down  here are just a blur so I always inspect and pay attention to the flowers  I have seen swarms here in every month of the year
kirko

[Robo]

Of course, I'm biased, but I would check them like Kirk-o suggests.  The problem I find with syrup is that your adding a lot more moisture into the hive and it is already quite damp with all the rain we have been getting.  We are bound to get a cold snap any time now as well.   I have not had a single hive come down with dysentery since switching to candy,  wish I could say that about feeding syrup, especially late in the season.  Not to mention, left over candy can be easily stored for next winter.  Personally, I find it easy insurance to prevent starvation.

[Romahawk]

I did check them last week and found the two outside frames in the top box were empty and all the bees were in the top, the bottom box is empty. I did slip two full frames in a couple of weeks ago that I got from a friend here locally. the other four frames are about half full.The bottom box has no stores or bees and the hive seems really light when lifted up in the back. I think I'll go ahead and put the candy board on tomorrow and save the hive top syrup feeders for spring.

The old snow machine to the west of us is cranking up tonight, just heard a little over 20 inches in Parish, NY and it's headed my way. Oh well it's got to come sooner or later. Strange thing is the old weather man is predicting temps back up in the 40's at the end of the week. Crazy Weather.. :?

[Romahawk]

A question borne of curiosity, do hive top feeders with 2 to 1 syrup freeze during the winter when temps drop below zero? Although it looks like it may not get to cold this winter we usually have several weeks at or below zero in my area. Would it bust my feeders if I were to put them on full of syrup and leave them on? Going to use the candy board but it's something I'd like to know for future references.

[Cindi]

Not certain, but I think the heat from the hive would keep the syrup from freezing.  You should feed the candy board, not sugar syrup in winter.  All that I have been reading on the forum indicates that you are asking for trouble with syrup in winter.  It has too high of a moisture content for the bees and it causes problems within their bodies, like dysentry or nosema.  they do not have the ability to reduce the water content down to that, say of the consistency of honey, which is around 17.3% moisture.  That is what they eat in wintertime, honey, 17.3% moisture.

Stay away from the syrup when the bees are in cluster.  That is my opinion, that is what I was taught in the "getting bees ready for winter" seminars too, along with the forum mentors as well.  Great day.Cindi

[Kirk-o]

I think I would use the candy less moisture to get rid of
kirko

[Finsky]

That is what they eat in wintertime, honey, 17.3% moisture.

Stay away from the syrup when the bees are in cluster.  That is my opinion, that is what I was taught in the "getting bees ready for winter" seminars too, along with the forum mentors as well.  Great day.Cindi

Fortunately  I have never known those ideas.  Perhaps diffrent winters demands different actions.

When bees open honey cell, honey takes water from hive air. It will be diluted.

Again I ask, why you had to let feeding to the point thay yuo need to disturb hives?

If bees have done cleansing flight, it is no harm to feed syrup. I have done it tens of times and I cannot see any troubles in it. Bees come out and after that they are in cluster over a month and winter continues.

When bees are in cluster, they will not rise to upstairs to take cold syrup. They do not take it even in autumn it night is near freezing point.

My first job is to take extra capped food frames from those hives which have too much food.  That is minor disturb to the hive because they ought to continue their winter rest. 

It is very different, do you have snow cover in winter or not. Do bees get drinking water. Feeding in winter starts brood rearing and that is the worst thing.
If bees have pollen in the hive they must kill larvae when pollen is finish.

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After cleasing flight I have not met moisture problems. I stuck the upper entrance that bees keep warm in the hive. They have allready brood and temperature has rised from 23C to 32C.  When hive temperature rises, probably that keeps hive dry and condensation harms any more.

There are so many oposite opinions about that.  When I start to feed with pollen patty, hives got awfully much chalbrood. When I stucked upper entrances and hives were warmer, chalkbrood dimished 90%.

And still, the most important thing is that bee stock is adapted to local year running. Queen importing from south promises not good.

[Cindi]

Chalkbrood.  I did have some of that last year, it disappeared when the weather warmed up in May.  I  believe that my hives have enough winter stores to last until our winter is over.  Which is about end of March when bees are flying freely.  Our winters are not as long as yours Finsky, so I would imagine that in my area the bees begin to raise brood early February.  We don't feed any sugar syrup (1:1) for spring-build up until the middle of March as well.  But then we feed that 1:1 for about 1 month.  Instructions from my instructor in the courses. 

Everyone has different times when they have different duties with bees to attend to, it can be very confusing when everyone has so many different ways of doing things, according to their climate.  Great day.  Cindi

[Finsky]

When we discuss on feeding, we mix all the time  - feeding WHY?

1) feeding for winter
2) emergecy feeding when food is too short
3) accelerate brooding feeding in spring

4) For emotion, it is just nice when they eate: "My hives are heavy but shoud I feed them"

If you do not feed in Autumn and trust only on late honey, it developes surely a problem. The box should be feeded full, otherwise bees do not cap cells.

I can se that beekeepers develope to themselves problems with their strange habits. Here in North there are no alternatives how to feed. We go along the edge all the time.

In my country most of beekeepers, however they have hundreds of hives, they have heavy opinion that sugar in spring accelerates build up.  No pollen is needed.

In USA feeding of bees have known tens of years in professional level and the knowledge is now delivered in internet with your own language. But it is not understood. Grandfathers knows best!

I must say that I accustomed in bee feeding really only 3 years ago.  My people are bad in English language. But the lack of biological basics must be the main reason for lack of understanding.

This is best reading and look year of referencies
http://maarec.cas.psu.edu/bkCD/HBBiology/nutrition_supplements.htm


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[Cindi]

Finsky, I have added the MAAREC site to my favourites and will read in-depth later on, thanks for the link.  Great day. Cindi

[Finsky]

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More nutrition advices

Influence of Protein Surplus and Deficit on Worker Bees and Their Colonies
Heather Mattila (PhD Student, Environmental Biology) and Gard Otis
http://www.honeybeeworld.com/diary/2003/diary051003.htm#protein

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[Cindi]

Finksy, awesome site, my "favourites" are getting so full that I will have to reorganize them.  Great day.  Cindi