Split the Hive, questions.

[Shizzell]

Ok,

Yesterday I did a single split due but I noticed a few things.
- There were No eggs in the original hive.
However there was lots of brood, and around 10% of all the brood were drones. I saw atleast 1-2 drones on each frame I pulled out. I still split the hive even though there were no eggs. The Hive was packed! I didn't take any honey out last year due to the harsh winter we were supposed to have. The entire bottom chamber had no brood, all 100% capped honey + pollen + water. The top chamber is where I took out 4 frames of brood. (No eggs!) The Top chamber was full of honey with the 4 frames of brood. Since I wanted to try to raise my own queen for the new hive, I'm concerned that there were no eggs. I'm thinking that since the hive was 100% full, the queen stopped laying eggs. I didn't see any queen cells however and the hive seemed really crowded. The new hive I replaced the 4 brood frames with 4 unbuilt plastic frames. So now I have in the new hive 4 frames of brood (With honey) but they don't have any eggs. Now I'm debating whether I should:


A. Buy a queen (I don't want to do this, is an option however)
B. Let the old hive build on the new frames, and let the queen lay eggs on those, and take those eggs and put in the new hive. Would this work??

Also, Do I have a queen in the old hive? I think its because it was so full she wasn't laying.

What do you guys think?

Thanks.   

[Brian D. Bray]

So you don't know where the queen is?  If it was transferred to the new hive chances are that she hasn't had a chance to begin laying due to lack of comb.  If she remained in the hold hive she may have stopped laying because if became honey bound.  I would wait a week before calling the medics and see what happens and where it happens.

A hive can become honey bound to the point the queen will stop laying while there is still a small amount of comb space is empty because the bees need extra room to process all the nectar.  Once they have sufficent room the queen will begin to lay again. 

[Shizzell]

Ok, that makes sense.

Another question, lets say I didn't get any eggs with the new hive that I split, and the new hive doesn't have a chance to make its own queen. If the old hive with the queen lays eggs in the old hive (in the new frames I gave her) can I just move the eggs to the old hive, and hopefully the new hive will turn the eggs into a queen?

Thanks Brian.

[thegolfpsycho]

That should work.  It really suprises me that you didn't find some queen cells if they were crowded up that much.

[Brian D. Bray]

Yes, but look at the down time for getting a new queen.  You're looking at nearly 2 months before you get a queen into the second hive.  I would either recombine the hives or buy a queen.  2 months during prime forage time is asking for disaster.

[thegolfpsycho]

Brian makes a good point.  A walkaway split is fun and easy, unless you don't have a queen in either half.  Better make sure you got one, then decide if you want to sacrifice this years production.  I don't make spring splits any more.  I have found queen availability easier later in the summer.  Since most of the flows around here are over by the end of July, I try to make honey, then split them.  Otherwise, they eat everything I leave them by the time the snow flys.  So I'll split them and feed them up in August and September. 

[Shizzell]

Thats true. I wasn't thinking about the time factor. I'll check next week and see if either the old queen accidentally got somehow into the new hive, and/or check if there are eggs in the old hive. I know its weird that the hive that was so crowded didn't have any queen cells. It still gets below 50 F at night here, so that might be the reason. I will probably buy a queen anyhow. darn girls are pricey, anyone have a reputable buyer that is below 20 dollars including shipping?  :shock:

Thanks.

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

"The concepts of splits are:

"You have to make sure that both of the resulting colonies have a queen or the resources to make one (eggs or larvae that just hatched from the egg, drones flying, pollen and honey, plenty of nurse bees).

"You have to make sure that both of the resulting colonies get an adequate supply of honey and pollen to feed the brood and themselves.

"You have to make sure that you account for drift back to the original site and insure that both resulting colonies have enough population of bees to care for the brood and the hive they have.

"You need to respect the natural structure of the brood nest. In other words, brood combs belong together. Drone brood goes on the outside edge of the brood and pollen and honey go outside that.

"The old adage is that you can try to raise more bees or more honey. If you want both, then you can try to maximize honey in the old location and bees in the new split. Otherwise most splits are either a small nuc made up from just enough to get it started, or an even split... "

[Zoot]

Shizell,

Just curious - what prompted you to do the split in the first place? I had one hive that was rather full coming into this spring and anticipated having to split it. But no queen cells ever appeared and I have simply decided to manage it - opened the brood area (re: Bush farms advice) and am looking forward to prolific production from this hive in May/June. Will probably split in mid to late summer