Couple questions and one major problem

jgarzasr · May 25, 2007, 09:15:32 AM

need some info please:

I opened up my Lang yesterday, and to my dismay found only a couple frames of bees and no Queen. Also no eggs, larvae, brood - nothing. I ordered a queen and it should be here by next Tuesday. Did I order that Queen in Vain, or is there still a chance this hive can get through the summer? I am just not sure if there are enough worker bees to be effective......

On the other hand - my TBH has exploded. I just added 5 new bars at the end of the hive last week, and they are starting to work them. But the amount of bees in this hive is huge. I was wondering if I place a super on top (I have an opening in the back, a gap where the last bar is) will they start filling it? This will probably be my only source of honey. I got some nice comb honey from it last year - but still would like some liquid.....

Thanks for any feedback.

Mici · May 25, 2007, 09:35:36 AM

i would take one open brood comb from the TBH and somehow fix it to an empty LR frame and insert it in.
this way, you will know for sure if there's no queen-not even a virgin one (they are tough to spot) plus you will increase the chances of bees accepting a new queen. it's more of a -just in case.

i'd say it's worth giving it a shot!

Ross · May 25, 2007, 09:56:56 AM

I would also reduce the space in the Lang. Make it into a nuc with a divider board until the population builds up again. This will give them a much better chance of recovering. You could also make a shaken swarm from the TBH and newspaper combine it with the Lang to give them more bees, or swap places with the two hives depending on how they are setup. The returning workers will strengthen the weak hive and won't hurt the TBH much at all.

Michael Bush · May 25, 2007, 11:08:42 AM

There is always a possibility that there is a virgin queen when you simply have no eggs or brood. A frame of eggs and open brood will usually find the answer to the question of whether there is a queen, unless there are laying workers in which case you'll see multiple eggs in many cells.

jgarzasr · May 25, 2007, 11:20:43 AM

There is no laying worker - as I didn't see any eggs. I also didn't look for a Queen, because I assumed that w/ no eggs that the Queen must have died. when the new queen arrives should I free release or let them eat away at the candy?

I could probably shake out some of the bees from my TBH but I would be worried about losing the queen....

The worker bees that are still there are bringing in nectar and pollen..... but very few are coming in and out compared to my TBH where they are coming in and out by the dozens.

This is something I haven't had to deal w/ yet so I am not too sure what to do. Thanks for the replies.

Mici · May 25, 2007, 11:43:40 AM

i haven't seen a laying worker hive, that's why i suggested a frame of open brood, mybe there are just a few eggs that you've missed? like i said, just in case-to improve your chances of introducing a queen. a laying worker hive will not take a queen.

Shizzell · May 25, 2007, 01:49:22 PM

I don't know - It seems to me that a lot of people think laying workers are extremely common. I find the exact opposite. Recently (about 4 weeks ago) I split one of my larger hives, without giving them a queen. I simply gave them a frame of eggs + brood. They never reared a queen. That hive was queenless for over 4 weeks. They still didn't have laying workers. Yesterday I ordered a queen for the hive. Maybe in some other regions its more common?

jgarzasr - a virgin queen takes a while to mate, and get in the swing of things. You may have ordered in vain. The best way to check if you have a virgin queen, is if you find your queen after the hive has accepted her (if she still is alive after 5 days), and then there are still no eggs. Also, its hard to see eggs on freshly drawn foundation. So there is the possibilty that you just didn't see any because, you simply couldn't see them. (If that makes any sense)

Good luck.

Jake

Mici · May 25, 2007, 02:07:48 PM

probably you're right, about my suggestions about laying worker but hey..with open brood he find out if he has a queen missing or not for free, instead of wasting a queen, surelly, like you said, maybe they won't rear their own but still, it's almost the best method to check it out. the laying worker part is just the bonus

Shizzell · May 25, 2007, 02:10:01 PM

True.

;)

doak · May 25, 2007, 02:17:59 PM

I had one once that went 45 days queenless, no laying workers.
I've got to go check on one now that had 3 queen cells in it three weeks ago.
Two Days after it swarmed I found two dead virgin queens on the landing.
doak

jgarzasr · May 25, 2007, 04:45:06 PM

Thanks for the replies - I will try some of advice I received. However - no one really commented on my second question. Do any of you think I can harvest a good surplus of liquid honey if I super my TBH? Has anyone had good success doing this?

Michael Bush · May 25, 2007, 07:44:54 PM

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

If you do the math, if you lose a queen, all brood, eggs and capped brood are gone before the new queen starts to lay. At this time many a beekeeper has assumed it was queenless, bought a queen, only to have her killed and then find eggs and brood the next inspection when they go to introduce ANOTHER queen.

Jerrymac · May 25, 2007, 09:11:48 PM

Quote from: jgarzasr on May 25, 2007, 04:45:06 PM
Thanks for the replies - I will try some of advice I received. However - no one really commented on my second question. Do any of you think I can harvest a good surplus of liquid honey if I super my TBH? Has anyone had good success doing this?

Instead of doing all comb honey from TBH you can crush and strain. Then you got honey. I believe the super you are planning on putting on would have to be over a part of the hive that is already established and then they might work up into it. But if it is way in the back where they are not yet working I do not believe they will go there.

Brian D. Bray · May 25, 2007, 10:41:02 PM

It is a good practice to put a frame of brood into any hive that is suspected of being queenless as how the bees react to it will tell you how to procede.

As for lalying workers, some hives have 1 or 2 even when they are queen right. Beekeepers are continually asking themselves how the queen got past the excluder to lay drone comb in the supers. IMO, its a rogue laying worker laying above the excluder. that is as long as the excluder is in good repair and not bent etc.