problems with pesticides

kansas · August 30, 2007, 06:29:07 PM

Hello all-
I have a sad story. Upon inspection of my new (as of spring) and first hive I noticed hundreds (500?) dead bees on the ground outside the hive. I knew immediately that it was pesticides so I grabbed a handful of dead ladies and walked down the hill the the old farming couple who lives adjacent to my land. I asked if they had dusted anything as of late and yes, the wife had dusted her cucumbers and squash two days ago. I turned and walked away w/o saying a word. As of this morning there were still some dead being hauled out but not near as much.

I've seen some foragers returning with some rather white pollen, more white than i have seen. Maybe pesticide laden?

Does anyone know how this will affect my hive. Is the pollen contaminated? Hopefully any ladies who eat of it die before feeding their queen.

Pray for rain so it will wash that crap off the crops. :-x

pdmattox · August 30, 2007, 06:49:54 PM

Unless there is more pesticide put out,you should be ok. just the foragers and maybe a few more will die. Maybe you should ask them to let you know before they put more posin out so you can cover you bees the night before to reduce your losses. sorry to hear the bad news though. yes please rain.

steve · August 30, 2007, 08:20:25 PM

kansas, the white pollen your girls are bring in may, in fact be seven dust.......
Steve

JP · August 30, 2007, 10:37:09 PM

Kansas, I would have a talk with the old farming couple and express how you feel about your bees and beekeeping. Let them see how passionate you are and also let them know that they are your favorite neighbors because they plant crops that your bees benefit from, and that your bees are beneficial to them as well. Talk about organic pest control. You may think they are the enemy right now, but it doesn't have to be that way. There are several ways that this unfortunate mishap can turn into a positive new beginning for you and your neighbors. I don't mean to be disgustingly positive in your unfortunate moment, I just think that things can turn around for you, for the better. Good luck!

Cindi · August 31, 2007, 12:19:08 PM

Kansas, I feel your pain. I dealt with some poisoning of one of my hives in the beginning of summer. My fault. I had placed ant bait traps under a couple of the colonies. One colony had bees that must have taken a little into their colony and it had some pretty bad effects. I did not lose the entire colony, but there were hundreds of dead bees, like you witnessed. Sad, I feel your pain.

I would do as JP told you. Talk to your neighbours. They have no clue that this dusting of their food plants could have caused damage to your colonies. Working with neighbours, informing them of your beekeeping, letting them be a part of your beekeeping. Like....advising you of when they may dust their crops. For some crops, dusting is quite important, unfortunate, but keeping some bad critters down in numbers is very important to obtain food for our tables. Good luck, talk to the old farmers, I am sure they would understand your plight, and how important it is for your bees to take care of the pollination of their crops :) Have a wonderful day, best of this beautiful life. Cindi

kansas · August 31, 2007, 05:30:18 PM

Thanks for all the words of support.

I think I should give a little more info to complete this story because I've had my bees all season and I know that they have come across these dusted crops before but, never did it have this massive of an effect.

You see, I live in an old farmhouse w/ a fair amount of field rats around. Sometimes they get into the house at a certain spot by the bedroom. I can hear them chewing on the wood at night and it can be so frustrating. I've worked to clean out the things around the house they hang out near and when I've gone after them before I have always used the kill traps as I think this is the most humane way to handle things. This time however, I've been busy and knew I shouldn't have done what I did but, I bought some poison traps. I went home after buying them at Home Depot, set them out near the rat hole and not but fifteen minutes after I walked away they had been pulled down the hole. I knew better than this but, forgot I so until I started to uncover the bee death mystery.

The day after I poisoned the rats I found the bees. There must have been five hundred in front of the hive, some still convulsing and dying. I scooped up a handful and started to walk down the hill to this old farming couple, whom I work with rather closely sometimes. I do work for them, and mow and trade stories and in turn they let me grow on some of their land so, we get along well and appreciate the things we have in common, (except I grow natural w/o chemicals and they use fertilizer) but anyways. I approached them as they were picking tomatoes for Saturdays market. I asked the husband if they had dusted lately and he said he didn't know. I told him what I though happened and he replied that their stuff shouldn't kill bees. Then I turned to the wife and asked her, and you know her reply- she dusted two days ago. I didn't really say much after that. No cordial "see you later", just turned and walked away.

As I turned to take my first step, I felt a sting on the tip of the middle finger of the left hand where I was cradling the mass of dead bees. Or dead so I thought. As soon as this happened I realized why the hive was hit. I just knew it in my head- ah-hah, I understand.

So, don't feel too bad for me. I had this coming. I had stepped out of bounds by the rules of life I hold to be important and the bees were letting me know what I had really done to those rats who share the land.

Kathyp · August 31, 2007, 05:45:59 PM

don't think rat poison killed your bees. if you are thinking it's karma, i'll keep what i think about that to myself. rats carry disease. however you kill them, you do a favor to all. sometimes traps are enough, sometimes they are not.

i still would mention it to your neighbors and see if you can work something out. they will still be gardening even after you have set your soul right with the universe.

JP · August 31, 2007, 06:19:33 PM

Kansas, if you use traps for rats, its a good idea to secure them by nailing or stapling whatever your method to something solid, like a piece of plywood, so the rats aren't able to pull the traps with them. Sometimes its necessary to kill varmon, even if you think they're cute or deserve to live on your land, they are disease carriers and we must do what we can to protect ourselves, our health. People come first in my opinion. We have field mice that invade our cabin and they are so cute I hate to kill them, but they will ruin our food and build nests in our beds if we let them. As for Samson, the king snake, he is welcome to share the cabin, which he does. Your situation is a touchy one, but I still think things can work out for you, your neighbors and the bees. Remember, that when we act when we are angry, we are at our worst, not our best. Cool off, compose yourself, think and rethink, and then approach your neighbors with kindness and discussion of ideas for improvement. Hope you don't mind my 2cents, and good luck. :)

pdmattox · August 31, 2007, 09:54:17 PM

Quote from: JP on August 31, 2007, 06:19:33 PM
Remember, that when we act when we are angry, we are at our worst, not our best. Cool off, compose yourself, think and rethink, and then approach your neighbors with kindness and discussion of ideas for improvement. Hope you don't mind my 2cents, and good luck. :)

Those are some good words JP, somthing I will try harder at remembering.

annette · August 31, 2007, 11:37:09 PM

Kathyp

I think you took the words right out of my mouth. Although, you say it with more gusto.

Good Post

Annette

Kathyp · August 31, 2007, 11:58:03 PM

after reading jp's post i think "tactlessness" is a better word than "gusto". :fishhit:

i hate rats. they are only good for target practice.

Brian D. Bray · September 01, 2007, 12:50:26 AM

I catch my barn rats in live traps then get out the old pellet gun and go on safari. Some of the rats are almost as big as cats. It can take several hits with a .17 cal pellet to kill a rat. I try to use as few shots as possible to kill the rats. Best places to shot for a 1 shot kill is at the base of the skull where it attaches to the neck or under the jaw where to round can penitrate into the brain. You have to have paitence to wait for the right shot.

I've lost several baby chicks to the rats and feel I'd rather eat chicken than rodents.

Cindi · September 01, 2007, 11:19:38 AM

Oh brother, the subject of those disgusting rats. If I could carry a gun on my property (even just a bee bee gun) I would. Being in the foster parent field, we are not allowed any firearms of any sort, rats!!!! That is a pun on words of course. We have had the rats steal the eggs that the ducks sit on, couldn't be anything else, because I see these little devils running around. We set out poison in very discreet places, where nothing but rats can get it, and it has worked wonders with population control. But...they keep coming back. I don't think we'll ever get all all of them, but the population is certainly downed.

KathyP, I envy that you, as the female human, can shoot a gun, and I bet that you are a pretty good aim. Good for you. Have a wonderful day, best of the life. Cindi

Brian D. Bray · September 03, 2007, 12:47:57 AM

I have to use the pellet gun because I live within the city limits and people get upset when you discharge a real gun, otherwise I'd pack my 22 magnum pistol with bird shot in it. The pistol I conceal carry is a little too big for shooting rats and makes too much noise.

Cindi · September 04, 2007, 11:17:47 AM

Brian, I can bet that you are a darn good aim too, pistol packin', being in the field that you were once upon that time. Have a wonderful day, best of our beautiful life. Cindi

KONASDAD · September 04, 2007, 11:36:59 AM

If the rat poison is a dust, bees will collect it if there is no pollen. I ahve no idea if it would kill bees. My friends bees collect chicken feed dust in very early spring as an example of thsi behaviour. I dont like poisons b/c they have the potential to be indiscriminate. Mechanical Traps I have great success with.

Also rememeber 500 bees is 1/4 of a days laying.

JP · September 04, 2007, 04:57:53 PM

They call rat poison dust "tracking powder" and it does not discriminate. I think tracking powder should be outlawed, its very toxic, very dangerous stuff.

Cindi · September 06, 2007, 11:35:19 AM

Hmmm...Some elaboration required here. When we set out bait for the rats, and I have zero problem with this at all, it is put into containers that the rats must climb into to get. It is in chunk forms and the rats have to chew pieces off. Also, another way we apply this poison is to nail the poison sticks to the base of walls in the corners of the barns. There cannot be any poison that gets to any place other than directly where we put it. It is safe for even our dogs that nosey around the barns because they cannot get to this poison.

Live traps, and then what? Let them go at the neighbours? :-D. I could squish their heads :roll: Have a wonderful day, best of this beautiful life. Cindi

Brian D. Bray · September 06, 2007, 11:39:18 PM

You can still buy a box of warfarin in a bulk powder (looks like chicken scratch) or dust. This is the stuff that bees will gather in place of pollen. I've not had a problem using the small blocks, live traps, or dead fall traps. However, when I'm trying to get rid of rats where the other animals or beneficial critters, I always use a live trap.