Is it too late for a cut-out?

[Gail Di Matteo]

I was asked to do a cut out today. I've never done one, and I was going to defer to a local who does them, asking to go along for the experience/education.
Is there enough time left in the season (Southwestern Virginia) for the colony to recover?
Any advice?
Thanks,
Gail

[Brian D. Bray]

Remember that when doing a cut out you want to use foundationless frames, cut the brood comb to fit between the bars and tie it in place.  Put the honey comb aside for crush and strain, and melt and filter the wax using a solar wax melter.  Take 2 boxes and frames in case it's a big hive.

You will have to feed any cut out done this time of year by the bucket full in order to replace all the stores you had to cut out when removing the comb.  To get a big hive through the winter you'll need to feed them enough syrup to equal 80-100 lbs of honey.  Figure @ least 200 lbs of 2:1 syrup.  If you can feed them that much syrup before mid-October (when the weather is usually too cold to feed) then go for it.  If not wait until Spring.

[Michael Bush]

There may be enough time.  They'd have better luck if you can wait until spring, but if they are going to remove them anyway, they might make it if there are a lot of bees and you feed them a lot between now and winter.

[Robo]

Waiting would be best, but if that is not an option, you can still save them.    I would suggest crush and strain the honey you get from the cutout and feed it back to them with a hivetop feeder.   Depending on how much of their comb you can salvage, you may need to give them addition drawn comb.  This way they only have to move and store the honey and not dissipate the energy in drying syrup.

This time of year makes for the hardest cut-outs.  You have peak number of bees and honey, which leads to a more difficult and sticky job.   You need to try and keep the honey mess to a minimum if possible, otherwise you will end up with a bunch of dead bees.

[JP]

If you can't wait until spring, like the others mentioned, you can feed and feed them. Also, you can do a newspaper combine if you have another colony to add them to.

[TwT]

if you cant wait, then just be careful removing the comb and put all comb in frames, honey and all, just have to be careful with honey comb because of weight, they should do fine if you remove them now....

[randydrivesabus]

hi Gail! you don't live far from me. i think theres still plenty of warm weather left around here this year.

[Gail Di Matteo]

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the advice.
Get this: I went to check out the situation, and the wall where they made their home, well, its made of concrete block. The gentleman is fine with leaving them there all winter. So, now I need advice on how to get them to swarm to a hive body? Will they do that? In which month is that most likely to happen?
Thanks again,
Gail

[Robo]

Well, they will swarm, but that won't solve the problem as the original colony will still be left in the wall.  Sounds like you need to trap them out with a funnel trap.   I would do it early in the Spring while the number of bees and stores are low.

You need to make a funnel out of metal screen, and place it over the main entrance and seal off all other entrances.  This will let the bees exit and not re-enter.   Set up a nuc or hive with a caged queen as close as possible to the funnel.  As the bees can't get back into the wall, they will migrate to you temporary hive right by the entrance.  After about 4 weeks of bees leaving and not returning, the wall hive will dwindle down.  Once you see there is little to no activity at the funnel,  remove it and allow the temporary hive, which is now very strong, go in and rob out what is left in the wall.  This will prevent any honey stores from fermenting and running.

[Gail Di Matteo]

Thanks Robo...I appreciate the visual aids!!!!

[Kathyp]

robo  ?

if you don't get the queen out that way, what happens to her and the brood left behind.  won't you just end up with another colony in the wall?

2nd ?

what about the mess in the wall?  the one i did had honey running down the walls even with an active hive.  with an abandoned hive, wouldn't the whole thing melt and make a heck of a mess....or attract ants, etc?

[Robo]

if you don't get the queen out that way, what happens to her and the brood left behind.  won't you just end up with another colony in the wall?

After 4 or so weeks of no field bees returning, the queen pretty much stops laying.  She and what little brood may be left die/are killed when the temporary colony robs them out.

what about the mess in the wall?  the one i did had honey running down the walls even with an active hive.  with an abandoned hive, wouldn't the whole thing melt and make a heck of a mess....or attract ants, etc?

It is key to build the strong colony on the outside,  and remove the funnel trap before you remove the temporary hive. This way, they go back in and rob any honey that is left.  That is also why I recommended it be done early in the Spring so there are not a lot of stores left.

Trapping is not the best way to go about removing bees, but sometimes it is the only reasonable approach.

[Understudy]

Since I assume winter is coming to Dublin, VA pretty quickly. I would say leave it.


Sincerely,
Brendhan