Water pooled up on top of inner cover

[Sean Kelly]

Hey guys!

Just went out to swap my hive stand around.  I was using pressure treated 2x4's across cinder blocks and it was starting to bow under the weight of both my hives.  Plus the hives would rock back and fourth when the wind blew.  SO anyway I fixed that by using 4x4's inserted into special cinderblocks with grooves on top for a 4x4.  Looks good too!  Will post a pic soon.

But short story long, I popped open my hives to take a peek since it's been almost 2 months since I've looked inside and noticed pooled up water in the corner of the inner cover.  I'm pretty sure this isnt good.  :)

What's weird is that innercover is the special "vented" one from Brushy Mountain with the groove cut on the side to let moisture and air escape.  The "non-vented" regular inner cover from Mannlake was dry as a bone on the other hive.

It has been raining cats and dogs for the past week.  I just hope this doesnt kill my girls come the frost.

Thoughts?

Sean Kelly

[bassman1977]

I popped open my hives to take a peek since it's been almost 2 months since I've looked inside and noticed pooled up water in the corner of the inner cover.  I'm pretty sure this isnt good.

2 months?!?!?   :shock:  You really should get into those hives a little more often.

It has been raining cats and dogs for the past week.  I just hope this doesnt kill my girls come the frost.

Yes, if there is condensation that is not ideal for your bees in the winter.  The rain could have helped cause the issues, but if that is happening with rain, then I am sure it will happen with snow.  Get some straw or hay and place a nice layer of it in between the inner cover and the outer cover.  Then strap down the hive so that the lid doesn't come off (all the straw will make the outer cover more likely to fly off in a strong wind).  The condensation will get trapped in the layers of straw and dissipate, keeping your bees from getting dripped on, perhaps turning them into popcicles.

[Kathyp]

 had the same problem last year.  you and i share most storms.  when we get those that blow the rain sideways, no opening is safe.  that's why i don't use an upper entrance in winter.

i would be hesitant to use the straw until you have the main moisture problem licked.  mold.  we have lots of that.

last year i had to use some roofing paper under my cover and overlapping the sides a bit to keep the rain out and  make a tighter fit on the lid.  this year i am going to try a couple of SMALL holes drilled into the front of the inner cover to let any pooled water drip out.  because ventilation is somewhat important, i have holes drilled in side of each top super.  they are not big, but allow bees to come and go and allow for some venting of moisture from hive. they are on the sides least likely to get hammered by rain.  i also have SBB's that allow for some air movement even with the board in.

someone pointed out that hives in walls, etc. survive with minimal ventilation, often having only a small hole from which to come and go.  i suspect that ours do fine if we keep the outside moisture out, and let the bees take care of the inside.

[cindi2]

Hmmm...seems to me, if I can get deep enough into the cobwebs of my mind, there has been considerable talk about the positioning of the slot in the inner cover.  It seems to me that the slot in the inner cover MUST be in the front, not the side.  But then, obviously commercial companies are selling them with the slot on the side  :?.  Can't wrap my head around that  one.

The slot in the inner cover should be in the front, so the air is drawn from the front of the hive, circulated throughout and then sent back out through the front.  That was the impression I get from my recollection of posts.

I have inner covers purchased, their design is to stand up in our wet, rainy, sloggy, southwestern British Columbia, the rainforest of B.C.  And let me tell you, it is a wet environment!!!!

Maybe do a search on posts on the slots on inner covers, but I am sure that if there is a slot, it is to be on the front, not the back or sides.  I could be wrong, I have been known to be wrong many times in my life  :roll: ;) :)  Have a wonderful day, best of this great life.  Cindi

[Finsky]

.
1) The basic is that inner covers insulation must be better than walls. Idea is to lead condensation onto sidewalls. There it goes onto bottom board.

2) The basic is too that hive have not extra space during winter. It is better that colony is tight in the hive. So hive is warmer and moisture condensates outside of hive (the site of dew point)

3) I have 10 mm wooden inner cover + 70 mm foam plastic (old matress). It let moisture go through the inner cover.

4) Inner covers moves moisture between inner and outer cover.  In that gap you  must have "winding through" gap that it ventilates moisture away. If you do not have gap, moisture makes droplets and it "rains" into insulation.

Straw or hays makes system worse.

5) Upper entrance is necessary during winter, unless you do not use screened bottom.
Hive should be a little bit tilted that water runs out from bottom boad.

6) In the back corners of bottom board holes are necessary that it vents moisture from all corners (screen included in corners)

7) The stand f hive should be  30-40 cm high and fra from ground

8) During snowy winter bees have more problems than in open air.

***********

If hive is insulated, it saves 1/3 % winter sugar compared with 30 mm mere wooden wall.
When I tried screend bottom, it consumed at least 50% more sugar during winter. I gived up that system even if some think that it is the only one.


I have made my system better and better during tens of years and winter losses are small. Moist air inside hive makes nosema into hive.

[Cindi]

Finsky, during my last hive inspections and work, I changed the screened bottomboards to solid bottomboards.  I believe that this is better, the screened bottomboards will go back into the hives come springtime when I do the first hive inspections.  The screened bottomboards are excellent for mite controls, I believe in that firmly.

My next bit of work to do with the colonies is to place a little shim under the back of the bottomboard to allow water to exit the front, not to stay on the bottomboard and pool, giving excees moisture, bad, bad.  But....now I think that I should have a small hole drilled at the back of the bottomboard, as you say, to allow for ventilation to come from underneath upwards to keep air flow.  Yes, it will be done. I trust your words of advice.

One question.  When putting in the insulation, is the insulation above or below the inner cover?  Didn't quite understand where, but my guess would be below inner cover?  Correct, wrong? 

Have a wonderful and beautiful life, great day, good to have you back to give some wonderful and great advices.  Cindi

[Old Timer]

when bees dry out nectar it needs to escape the hive. sounds like this hive is curing some nectar from the fall flow. even though you have a notch on the edge of your inner cover, you may want to put a shim between your outer lid and inner cover as i do. if you don't, the bees will seal them together, especially if you haven't opened it for two months, and you will have no air flow between the two.

[Dubhe]

Finsky said:

### The basic is that inner covers insulation must be better than walls. Idea is to lead condensation onto sidewalls. There it goes onto bottom board.

Question: How do you use the foam padding to insulate the inner cover & still provide for ventilation?

### The basic is too that hive have not extra space during winter. It is better that colony is tight in the hive. So hive is warmer and moisture condensates outside of hive (the site of dew point)

Question: Is it better to have 6 frames of bees, brood & stores in the bottom box with 6 frames of stores in the top box, or fill the bottom box & remove the top?

[Michael Bush]

>Question: How do you use the foam padding to insulate the inner cover & still provide for ventilation?

I just cut it to fit on TOP of the cover with a brick on top of that.  But if you put a notched inner cover with the notch down and the foam on top, you'll also get what you're looking for.