Fully drawn plastic foundation

mudlakee · November 28, 2007, 07:52:56 PM

Hello I have been watching. Now I have a question or 2. I have read a little about fully drawn foundation. Is it good or no good and why? If it is around who has it ? Also who has the best Russian Nucs I live in upstate New York, so east of the Mississippi. I have looked at lots of web sites(50)? Recommendations Please. We get lots of cold weather below 0. Thank You Tony

Shawn · November 28, 2007, 09:38:18 PM

No clue on the foundation because I am new. I have attached a couple of links that I was referred to for russians. http://www.porterfarmbees.com/index.html

http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/

I am ordering from the second, fatbeeman for my Russians.

mudlakee · November 28, 2007, 10:38:26 PM

Thank You for the info. Have you had Russians before? Thank You Tony

TwT · November 28, 2007, 11:56:09 PM

Dwight Porter doesn't ship nucs (pick up only) but he does have the USDA Russian bee's
http://www.porterfarmbees.com/index.html
Fatbeeman does ship nuc's but I dont know the sorce of his russians...
http://www.geocities.com/fatbeeman/

Understudy · November 29, 2007, 12:50:10 AM

I use permacomb. Which is fully drawn plastic comb for mediums. I think permacomb is an excellent product. It is a little hard to get right now. John has been having a problem with the factory.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

JP · November 29, 2007, 01:28:18 AM

I use plasticell from dadant with wooden frames, works well for me. I like Russians. Most of my bees are feral but I do have three Russian colonies. One is my strongest honey producer. Some say they are more prone to swarm and more agressive. Haven't seen that.

Michael Bush · November 29, 2007, 08:24:35 AM

>I have read a little about fully drawn foundation. Is it good or no good and why?

If it's fully drawn, it's not really foundation. Honey Super Cell and PermaComb are the only ones on the market that I know of. I like them. With any plastic the main issue is initial acceptance. Once the bees are using them they accept them fine, but getting them to use them initially can require giving them no other choice.

> If it is around who has it ?

http://www.beesource.com/bee-l/bulletinboard/seets/permacomb.htm
http://www.honeysupercell.com/sblog/

mudlakee · November 29, 2007, 12:02:27 PM

Thank You for the info. Tony

annette · November 29, 2007, 12:54:52 PM

is the permacomb considered small cell??

Understudy · November 29, 2007, 02:23:14 PM

Quote from: annette on November 29, 2007, 12:54:52 PM
is the permacomb considered small cell??

Yes, but just barely. It is 5.0 mm so small cell yes but not natural cell size which can be as small as 4.62. Michael can correct me but I believe small cell is 4.9 mm or smaller. The thing I do is let the bees build up layers in the permacomb. Michael dips his in heated wax and then shakes it out to remove excess. That brings it down to natural size right away and makes acceptance much easier. Most foundation is 5.4mm

People can split hairs and say that it is not and they have a leg to stand on however I don't have a Varroa issue. So I am pretty comfortable with it.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

mudlakee · November 29, 2007, 02:43:56 PM

Thank You for all the info. It has been along time since I keep bees. The info you have provided me is great. Thank You again Tony

Robo · November 29, 2007, 03:07:17 PM

I started using the HSC fully drawn 4.9 this year and so far have been very happy with it.

The obvious biggest benefit is instant regression to small cell bees. But added benefit is that it is mice and wax moth proof and doesn't require resources from the bees to draw it out. The draw backs I have experienced are that they hard hard to get the bees to accept unless you force them, but once they accept it almost every cell is used (as you can see in the pic), they are a little bit heavier, and you occasionally get a bee or two trapped in the cavity of the end bars. Minor when compared to the benefit to me.

http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php?topic=11632.0
Do a search of the forum on HSC or Honey Super Cell and you will find more discussions.

I can't recommend any Russian breeders, but would advise getting Northern bred queens. I have had much better success since I have been using northern feral stock to breed queens.

mudlakee · November 29, 2007, 04:37:52 PM

Thank You very much Tony

Hopeful · November 29, 2007, 08:25:05 PM

Hw do you "force" a bee to accept this frame?

Robo · November 29, 2007, 09:15:44 PM

Quote from: Hopeful on November 29, 2007, 08:25:05 PM
Hw do you "force" a bee to accept this frame?

By not giving them any wax foundation/comb or giving them room to build comb.

Michael Bush · November 30, 2007, 03:04:45 PM

>is the permacomb considered small cell??

If you take the cell wall thickness into account and the taper of the cell (so that the mold will come off) into account, it comes to about 5.0mm. Small cell is considered to be 4.9mm or smaller. But 5.0mm is much smaller than 5.4mm.

mudlakee · November 30, 2007, 08:55:14 PM

Reading from the Honey Super
Cell page on spec. it says Cell size 4.8 to 4.9 mmI.D. I hope they are right I ordered a case. Tony

Robo · December 01, 2007, 10:01:26 AM

Quote from: mudlakee on November 30, 2007, 08:55:14 PM
Reading from the Honey Super
Cell page on spec. it says Cell size 4.8 to 4.9 mmI.D. I hope they are right I ordered a case. Tony

Hopefully this will ease your worry.

I found the 4.8 - 4.9 range to be very accurate.

Rob...