Brood Box

babyphatt455 · February 19, 2008, 08:26:44 PM

Hello i currently have my bees in one brood box and i was wondering when should i add another brood box( a deep honey super).I know to add regular honey supers when the nectar flow comes but acn i put another brood box on any sooner?

Kathyp · February 19, 2008, 08:40:40 PM

where in oregon are you?

i think there was a recent post about adding boxes. i believe the consensus was to add when 8 out of 10 frames were covered.

i will probably add a box to my one box hive in a couple of weeks if the weather has warmed and the queen is laying. i will split my other hives mid march, weather and temps permitting. right now, we are still going below freezing at night even though the days have warmed considerably. no point in giving them space or disturbing them until it's warmer.

babyphatt455 · February 19, 2008, 11:30:56 PM

I live in dallas.
I was asking because today I took a look inside and there was alot of bees and I was just worried about them being overcrowded in there.

Brian D. Bray · February 20, 2008, 12:09:34 AM

Quote from: babyphatt455 on February 19, 2008, 11:30:56 PM
I live in dallas.
I was asking because today I took a look inside and there was alot of bees and I was just worried about them being overcrowded in there.

At this time of year you do not have to worry about overcrowding. The cluster is small and the hive as little stores left. If anything you might consider feeding them some 1:1 syrup. My bees are coming in with scades of pollen so that part should not be a factor. The bees need both pollen and nectar (honey) to grow brood and repopulate the hive. If you feed now for about 2 weeks you should have a large brood hatch in mid-late March--then super.

babyphatt455 · February 20, 2008, 12:52:00 AM

ok and what about pollen patties?
should i feed them any of those until spring?

Brian D. Bray · February 20, 2008, 01:20:57 AM

Quote from: babyphatt455 on February 20, 2008, 12:52:00 AM
ok and what about pollen patties?
should i feed them any of those until spring?

If you insist. I've always found that the bees could find pollen even when they can't find nectar. Right now, in my area, they are bringing in loads of pollen from filberts, kitten willow, and alder. 90% of the bees returning to the hive are packing yellow in their hip pockets.

babyphatt455 · February 20, 2008, 01:40:40 AM

alright because i ordered some beemax patties
and got them in the mail today
and decided to stick one in there for them.

I read somewhere that once youstart feeding them the patties that you cant stop until they can bring in there own food though.
Is this true?

Brian D. Bray · February 20, 2008, 02:05:44 AM

No, you will find that the bees may very well ignore the patties if they have a source of pollen within foraging distance (this has been my experience to the extent that I consider pollen patties a waste of time and money).

Feeding syrup on the other hand is a different matter. If you start feeding syrup to stimulate brood production you need to continue until the beginning of the first honey flow--usually Maple in my area--or the bees will eat the eggs and will restart brood later. The restart will put them behind hives that were not fed at all.

Jerrymac · February 20, 2008, 10:42:53 AM

Quote from: Brian D. Bray on February 20, 2008, 02:05:44 AM
If you start feeding syrup to stimulate brood production you need to continue until the beginning of the first honey flow--usually Maple in my area--or the bees will eat the eggs and will restart brood later. The restart will put them behind hives that were not fed at all.

So two identical hives, one of them is fed and starts brood rearing. The other hive doesn't start laying yet. Then the feeding stops and the laying hive eats the eggs. What about the larvae and pupae?

Then the flow starts and THE OTHER hive starts brood rearing but the first hive doesn't?
Can you explain that to me.

Cindi · February 20, 2008, 11:00:04 AM

About the pollen patty feeding. Some feel it is a waster of money and time.....but there are some big buts here (and I don't mean human beings, hee, hee).

If you live in a climate such as I do, the weather can be so poor that the bees plain and simply cannot get out to get pollen, let alone nectar if they is any available. There can be extended periods in the spring where the bees cannot get out of the hive. If the hive does not have adequate pollen stores already, they will not raise brood. This can cause a very late spring build up.

I contend for my area, that pollen patties MUST be fed. I cannot waiver from that rule of thumb. For example, we had three days of great sunshine, and yes the bees are foraging for pollen, we have pollen readily available, like Brian said, the filberts and others. But...today, the weather is not going to be sunny (maybe later today). Our weather may be unsuitable now for the bees to fly for some time. They have begun to rear brood, I saw that when I examined the colonies on Sunday. If there is not pollen available to them, be it pollen patty or pollen stores, then after the bees have used up the fat stored in their bodies, the larvae cannot be fed. That is a bad thing.

So.....I must say that it totally depends on the weather situations. Some places have lots and lots of sunshine, lots of time for the bees to get out and forage pollen. That is not the case here in my climate, nope not even close. We feed pollen patties, continually until about the beginning of May. If the bees don't require this help from the human, they will ignore the patty, but it is there in the event that they need it.

Every year I have fed pollen patties, my bees have gobbled it up like there was no tomorrow. A least a patty a week, these patties are approximately 500 grams, that would be just over one pound, that is alot of food that they very, very obviously require. All is weather dependent. Have a wonderful and beautiful day, our great lives on this great planet. Cindi

Kathyp · February 20, 2008, 12:57:18 PM

i think Brian live in the PNW banana belt :-). Cindi and i seem to have similar weather. my bees brought in pollen for the couple of warm and dry days we had. now we will have cold and rain for a week or so. i have pollen patties on my hives. if you are concerned about wasting the patties, cut them in half and feed 1/2 at a time. keep the extra frozen. thaw well before putting on hive.

you have to keep an eye on things and adjust according to what you see.

babyphatt455 · February 20, 2008, 01:11:41 PM

Ok so if i go out there in a few days and the pollen hasn't been eaten then I'll go ahead and wait to feed the patties to them

So I should keep the patties frozen?
How long do they usually take to thaw?

Kathyp · February 20, 2008, 01:42:46 PM

they don't take long to thaw. if i remember, i take them out the night before and let them thaw. once you put the patties on, you might as well leave them as long as they are good. it they will eat it as they need it. if they don't eat what you have put on, don't bother replacing.

another thing....last year was pretty bad around here for my bees. mid summer my bees looked poor even though there seemed to be plenty of food. i ended up putting on patties and feeding. the have come through winter great and look strong to start this year.

don't be afraid to try things. your instinct may be your best guide. also, don't be afraid to ask questions. someone here will have an idea for you....or many ideas.... :-)

if you have questions about what you are seeing, take pictures. i can not believe the things that people see when pictures are posted. certainly much more that i!

Brian D. Bray · February 20, 2008, 10:14:34 PM

Quote from: Jerrymac on February 20, 2008, 10:42:53 AM
Quote from: Brian D. Bray on February 20, 2008, 02:05:44 AM
If you start feeding syrup to stimulate brood production you need to continue until the beginning of the first honey flow--usually Maple in my area--or the bees will eat the eggs and will restart brood later. The restart will put them behind hives that were not fed at all.

So two identical hives, one of them is fed and starts brood rearing. The other hive doesn't start laying yet. Then the feeding stops and the laying hive eats the eggs. What about the larvae and pupae?

Then the flow starts and THE OTHER hive starts brood rearing but the first hive doesn't?
Can you explain that to me.

Yes, if the hive that was being fed begins rearing brood prior to any kind of natural nectar flow and the feeding is stopped (still be for any nectar flow) the bees will eat the eggs and sometimes throw out any larvae that isn't capable. Having done that they have also used some of their existing stores as well as the syrup. When the natural nectar flow begins the works will limit the queens production at first because of the prior false start. This will put the hive that was fed a little, but stopped, behind the other(s) because of the smaller brood area.

Yes, Cindi and KathyP, I live in the banana belt called the San Juan Islands. The way the winds come into Northwest Washington through the Strait of San Juan de Fuca and down between Vancouver Island and the Mainland it has a tendency to keep my area rather balmy when every thing else is rain or snow. The down side is that I get some pretty bad winds now and then. But I like the extra days of sunshine a lot.