Making a Split

[Pond Creek Farm]

Old topic I know, but while at the state meeting, I was given conflicting advice on splits Both, however,  had a large gap: when do I know I can split?  (this gap is my own fault in that I failed to realize to ask until I was on my way home).  In my first class, the instructor was telling us how there are times when a hive can be split into two hives.  This is done by taking bees and all (less the queen) into a hive body a few feet away.  He indicated that the forager bees (who are the ones most likely to rejecct a new queen) will return to their original hive and leave only house bees which are much nicer and more accepting of re-queening.  This approach assumed that a new queen would be introduced in the typical manner.

In a conversation with a friend, we discussed that the hive I was given seems to be rolling right along without any medication or intervention for the past two years. It was assumed that these bees are survivors and good feral stock for splitting and growing the apiary. He suggested that in a few weeks I split the hive and pay no attention to whether I have the queen.  The assumption is that the queenless hive will make its own queen.  That also made sense to me (although making sense to me is by no means a glowing endorsement as I am at a point where everything sounds reasonable). 

So can I split without bringing in a packaged queen? (I must admit that I like this idea since the prospect of identifying her majesty among the hoard is daunting to say the least).  How do I know if the feral hive is strong enough? They are in a deep/deep/medium setup.  There are several frames of hiney in the medium, but I have not got my tent-sized bee suit in yet, so I have no idea what lies beneath.  Is there a formula for knowing when to split or how many frames to leave with each, etc.  Am I to feed both after the split.  We have good pollen now, but little nectar for a few more weeks.  Thanks for the advice.

[Kimbrell]

I would also like to know when to make a split.  I like the idea of not having to locate the queen.  In all but one of my hives I haven't seen the queen since I installed her.  And it's not for lack of searching! 
I'm with you, Pond Creek, I know so little that everything I hear starts to sound reasonable!  However I have heard of this method of splitting hives.  I'd like to hear from someone who's tried it how it worked for them.

[Michael Bush]

>when do I know I can split?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#earlysplit

[Kirk-o]

Making a split for me was very difficult I had nothing but failures.I finally figured out after reading Michael Bush's site that it has alot to do with WHEN.So after much trouble I figured it out.So being in LA and it being a warm climate I do splits in August.I take three frames of bees with brood sealed one frame of pollen and one frame of honey.I do this the afternoon before the queen comes queen comes at 1100 am go put queen in.I do it at this time of year because I have trouble with little black ants,real trouble.This timeing allows me to get them strong and doing really good by november.Or I do a even split like on Michael Bush's page.So my success was determined by when I just took a while figureing it out.Just do what Michael says just work out when and take the frames from a strong hive.
kirko

[Brian D. Bray]

I prefer July to August, maybe because we still, normally, have another late honey flow that usually fills the hives.  Techincally you can split 4 frames of bees into 2 nucs but it will take all year for them to build up and you won't get a harvest. 

One rule of thumb for make splits is to limit the number of splits to 2 splits per box of bees.  At that ratio a 3 tier hive can be split into 6 hives if care is taken that each split has at least 2 frames of brood. 

Remember, too, that when making splits the number of brood frames is more important than the number of frames that have bees.

A three frame split in a 5 frame nuc with 2 frames being mostly or partially brood can build to a 10 frame single fairly easily but it is easier to accomplish if you retain the 5 frame nuc box until it is 2 deep and then transfer to a larger hive body.

[metzelplex]

I'm in northern california I usually split my strong hives in april as I'm pulling them out of the almonds thats the soonest I can get cells or queens I divide the brood ,pollen ,honey and other frames evenly between both boxes then I take the top box to a different yard and then I put in a queen or  a cell the very next evening and another box with drawn comb on top of both the original and the split I can usually find the queen when I'm splitting everything between the boxes if I can't then I mark both the top and bottom boxes and go back and check for queen cells being drawn out by the one thats queenless then I might keep those cells or cut those cells out and put in a cell of my choosing from a queen breeder in my area I always try to buy queens and cells from at least  2 different lines every year to keep the gene pool of my drones as big as possible for my weak boxes I requeen and maybe put them back into a single .Splitting like this gives me real strong hives right away (laying queens from cells in 15-20 days)