Laying workers question

[annette]

I had no idea that laying workers could live in the same hive with the queen. This is what I read from a post by Brian Bray.

So now I have a question. I just introduced a new queen into my queenless hive. I am about 90% positive they are queenless, but I was wondering if by chance their were laying workers in that hive, would they accept this new queen in the cage????

I am keeping the candy plug closed until I can figure out if they accept her. I will check tomorrow.

Thanks
Annette

[Joseph Clemens]

Laying workers are like an almost inevitable death sentence. If they themselves do not attack and kill a foreign replacement queen, they frequently inspire other, more normal workers, to reject true and healthy queens. Giving laying worker hives a frame of open brood, each week, until they start their own queen cells, to indicate they are ready to accept a queen - then destroying those queen cells, and then introducing a new queen in a push-in cage with emerging worker brood or giving them a cultured queen cell, ready to emerge.

[Michael Bush]

>I had no idea that laying workers could live in the same hive with the queen. This is what I read from a post by Brian Bray.

Actually all hives have laying workers.  They are policed so that they don't get out of hand if there is open worker brood.

>So now I have a question. I just introduced a new queen into my queenless hive. I am about 90% positive they are queenless, but I was wondering if by chance their were laying workers in that hive, would they accept this new queen in the cage?

If you see no evidence of laying workers (multiple eggs in cells) I wouldn't be concerned.

>I am keeping the candy plug closed until I can figure out if they accept her. I will check tomorrow.

Leave it for four days and then  check.  If they are accepting her, you can either release her or poke a hole in the candy and leave the cork out.  (careful poking holes in candy that you don't poke a hole in the queen)

[JP]

Laying workers, "queen wannabees".  ;)


...JP

[annette]

OK, thanks for the info.

I will just sit and wait a few more days.

Annette

[Understudy]

Look for the signs of a laying worker.

Multiple eggs in a cell
Eggs in a variet of positions instead of unitform or gradual shifts.

Nothing but capped drone cells in the center of the frames in the middle of the hive body.

Drones are usually on the outer frames.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[jimmyo]

I don't try to add a new queen.  I combine the queenless/hive with a hive that has a queen laying in it using newspaper between the hives.  This hasn't worked every time but it works better for me than just adding a new queen.
Jim   

[Michael Bush]

http://www.bushfarms.com/beeslayingworkers.htm

[annette]

I POSTED A NEW POST FOR THIS QUESTION I HAVE.

[Brian D. Bray]

The best way to get a laying worker hive to accept a new queen is to put frames of brood from other hives into the core brood chamber over a few weeks.  This displaces the laying worker and gets the bees reaquainted with worker brood.  Then put some more frames of brood into the core area with a queen installed inside a push in cage.  Remove the cage after a few days.  The workers will accept the queen and work to suppress the laying workers.

Still, as I've said, almost every hive has a few laying workers--this is usually the cause of any drone cells in the honey supers or above an excluder.

[Michael Bush]

See page 9 of "The Wisdom of the Hive"

    "Although worker honey bees cannot mate, they do possess ovaries and can produce viable eggs; hence they do have the potential to have male offspring (in bees and other Hymenoptera, fertilized eggs produce females while unfertilized eggs produce males). It is now clear, however, that this potential is exceedingly rarely realized as long as a colony contains a queen (in queenless colonies, workers eventually lay large numbers of male eggs; see the review in Page and Erickson 1988). One supporting piece of evidence comes from studies of worker ovary development in queenright colonies, which have consistently revealed extremely low levels of development. All studies to date report far fewer than 1 % of workers have ovaries developed sufficiently to lay eggs (reviewed in Ratnieks 1993; see also Visscher 1995a). For example, Ratnieks dissected 10,634 worker bees from 21 colonies and found that only 7 had moderately developed egg (half the size of a completed egg) and that just one had a fully developed egg in her body."

If you do the math, in a normal booming queenright hive of 100,000 bees that's 70 laying workers. In a laying worker hive it's much higher.

[annette]

The best way to get a laying worker hive to accept a new queen is to put frames of brood from other hives into the core brood chamber over a few weeks.  This displaces the laying worker and gets the bees reaquainted with worker brood.  Then put some more frames of brood into the core area with a queen installed inside a push in cage.  Remove the cage after a few days.  The workers will accept the queen and work to suppress the laying workers.

Still, as I've said, almost every hive has a few laying workers--this is usually the cause of any drone cells in the honey supers or above an excluder.

Brian

Has this actually worked for you??? Have you done this??

Annette

[Brian D. Bray]

The best way to get a laying worker hive to accept a new queen is to put frames of brood from other hives into the core brood chamber over a few weeks.  This displaces the laying worker and gets the bees reaquainted with worker brood.  Then put some more frames of brood into the core area with a queen installed inside a push in cage.  Remove the cage after a few days.  The workers will accept the queen and work to suppress the laying workers.

Still, as I've said, almost every hive has a few laying workers--this is usually the cause of any drone cells in the honey supers or above an excluder.

Brian

Has this actually worked for you??? Have you done this??

Annette

Yes, and if you want to increase your chances for queen acceptence shake out the hive the 2nd oe 3rd time you in brood frames.  The laying workers won't be able to return to a hive they never left.  Place a new box with brood combs in the place of the hive, carry the hive 50-100 feet away and shake the frames free of bees then return the frames to the hive.  If this step works properly you should see queen cells being built in the brood comb as long as the comb as everything from eggs to pupae.  If you have queen cells you can introduce the queen using a push in cage. 

The idea is that if you feed the laying worker hive enough brood the phenomores of fertile eggs will eventually cause the bees to reject the laying workers and develop a true queen.  When trying to make a laying worker hive queenright several rounds of brood introduction is necessary or failure is almost guaranteed.