Dead bees question...

KS wife · April 28, 2008, 01:14:36 PM

First, what do you think is the best book about beekeeping for beginners? I've read my book forwards and backwards trying to figure out what is up with one of my hives and I can't find much of anything.

Okay, I got two packages of bees. One is doing great as far as I can tell. They seem happy and only get mildly grumpy when I mess around with the entrance feeders during the day. We've had schedule issues (which are now over) that necessetated me refilling feeders during the middle of the day instead of in the evening when they were all settled in.

The other hive - yikes! There are a lot of dead bees on the ground in front of the hive. At first I though they were just cleaning house and getting rid of the ones that had died in transit, but since both packages had some dead ones and the other hive has no dead ones in front of it, obviously something else is going on. They don't seem grumpy enough for it to be a robbing issue. The weather has been less than ideal so I've only opened the hives once to check on the queens (both were released).

This afternoon I think it will finally be warm enough while I"m home to open up and take a good look. There is enough info in the book I have that I feel comfortable about checking things in the happy hive, but I don't know what I should be looking for in the unhappy hive.

BMAC · April 28, 2008, 01:21:08 PM

Most likely the dead bees are a result of robbing due to the entrance feeders. Eastern Kansas has been less than ideal and the girls just have not had much to do but stick around home and get in trouble.

To help this situation out a bit, take a piece of screen or foam or something and cover up the entire entrance of both hives except for about 1 inch by the feeder. This will help both colonies out.

doak · April 28, 2008, 01:28:29 PM

Which book do you have?
I find First steps in beekeeping, and Both Of Richard Bonny's books good for starters.

Check the front of the hive body for scratches.
Check the dead bees to see if they have "juice" in them.
Skunks/Polecats will come to the hive at night and scratch on the hive to get the bees to come to the entrance. Grab them and suck them dry then drop the empty hull/bee.

Hope this helps. doak

KS wife · April 28, 2008, 01:50:47 PM

No scratches or other signs of predators. I do have the entrances stuffed with grass (recommended in the book) to reduce the entrance size. I'll see if I can block the one hive better.

doak · April 28, 2008, 02:03:07 PM

Thats why I like my inside feeders. The kind that sits in where a frame does.
Positioned on the outer edge you only have to slip the top over one frame width to fill it.
I used the board-man feeder when I first started. and always had that robbing problem.
doak

KS wife · May 01, 2008, 11:45:40 AM

Finally managed to get into the hive.

Robo · May 01, 2008, 12:01:08 PM

Can't help with your dead bee issue from the pictures provided, but they are excellent examples of why not to use duragilt foundation. You need to replace that bad frame and any others that have the wax stripped off the plastic core. The bees will never build good comb on stripped duragilt.

rob...

KS wife · May 01, 2008, 12:08:43 PM

Okay, I'll start with frame replacement. That I can do. Recommendations?

I didn't find the queen when we inspected that hive. The first pic looked like drone cells to me, they were raised up. In the second pic on the top left and on the right below my thumb, is that just because of bad foundation or are those supersedure cells?

Oh, and from my OP, the book I have is Keeping Bees by John Vivian. I like it, it just seems to not have enough info on trouble shooting.

Robo · May 01, 2008, 12:16:02 PM

Quote from: KS wife on May 01, 2008, 12:08:43 PM
Okay, I'll start with frame replacement. That I can do. Recommendations?

Choice is yours, the bees prefer wax over plastic if given the choice. Duragilt is about the only thing I would recommend against ;)

Quote
I didn't find the queen when we inspected that hive. The first pic looked like drone cells to me, they were raised up. In the second pic on the top left and on the right below my thumb, is that just because of bad foundation or are those supersedure cells?

First one looks like normal brood and larvae which will be raised a little. Drone brood will look like bullets. It doesn't seem like there is enough honey and pollen for my liking. Did you see honey and pollen in the hive? Perhaps they are starving?
The second and third frames looks like just bad comb to me, I don't see any supercedure cells.

Quote
Oh, and from my OP, the book I have is Keeping Bees by John Vivian. I like it, it just seems to not have enough info on trouble shooting.

That is on my favorite books list :-D

KS wife · May 01, 2008, 12:27:20 PM

I'll order new foundation today.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a fair bit of pollen. I know there was a lot of it in the hive right next to it. They've been fed with an entrance feeder since I got them, so I don't think they are hungry. They are just grumpier than the other hive, but not horribly so. I should have taken a pic of the dead bees at the entrance. I'll try that later.

Thanks so much! I'll get the hang of this yet. :)

Cindi · May 02, 2008, 12:57:11 AM

Rob, Oh oh, I think after reading your recommendation in this post about the bees not liking to build on the wax stripped off of duragilt I am in for it this year. When I harvested honey last fall I did the crush and strain method. Of course I scraped off all the wax, oops......My frames, the pierco ones, looked just like the frames in the above pictures. Yep, pierco plastic. Is that the same as duragilt? I am rather anxious to hear what you have to say, because I am a'thinkin' that my Husband is gonna have to cut out those pierco plastic foundations and just leave the plastic frames and they can build their own comb. Oh brother, just another turn in this wheel, hee, hee, beautiful, most wonderful life and day. Cindi

doak · May 02, 2008, 01:06:40 AM

You shouldn't have that problem with the hard plastic frame/foundation, just take a good stiff spatula and just rake it off down to the base. The bottom of the cell "imprint" will keep enough wax in them to go back with out having to re wax them.
I wouldn't use duragilt if it was gave to me. ;)doak

Cindi · May 02, 2008, 01:16:33 AM

Doak, hmmm....OK. That makes sense. I am going to have to take a picture of my pierco plastic foundation/frame because it looks the same to me upon a glance as the one in the picture above. I need to do a comparison for my own peace of mind.

So, tell me then, what is duragilt? I need to know because I just do, I can't stand it, I am so ding dang nosey. I will look for a reply in the morning when I get up, I am heading off to bed. Have a great night and sweet dreams, Doak. Cindi

doak · May 02, 2008, 01:28:22 AM

Duragilt is a flimsy thin piece of plastic with cell sections imprinted on it coated with a thin coat of wax.
Just like the hard plastic has, "or is supposed to".
The wax doesn't stick to the flimsy plastic for some reason.
Another reason I like the hard plastic frames/foundation is if you have a one way extractor like I do.
You don't have to worry about blowing your comb out.
Hope this helps. :)doak

Robo · May 02, 2008, 08:09:02 AM

Cindi,

You will be fine.

Unlike Pierco and the other hard plastic foundations, Duraguilt has a thin plastic core, sort of like the clear shiny plastic used for packaging stuff on cardboard to display (ie. batteries, hot wheels, etc.). then there is a layer of wax on each side that has the cell imprints. When the wax is stripped off, all that is left is the smooth plastic with just a slight cell bottom impression, but no cell walls.

Cindi · May 02, 2008, 09:38:17 AM

Doak, Rob, 100% understanding now. Thank you very much. I really need to know fully what people are talking about now and then (well, that is not true, all the time), so I have now full knowledge. Have a most wonderful and beauty of a day, groove on life. Cindi