Using queen excluders

[Jim Stovall]

I opened all five of my hives yesterday to get an idea about what is happening in each and to see if there were any obvious problems. In general, I found a lot of bees doing what bee should do at this time of year. Hives 3 and 5, the ones built from recent swarms, are drawing comb like crazy. Hive 3 is two weeks old, and there is some beautifully capped brood cells on some of the frames. I have a couple of front feeders, but these still seem to want to get out and work the flowers.

Hive 4, my nuc hive, has been with me for about three weeks and sees to be expanding nicely. I had put a couple of interior jars of juice on them, but I found so much brood cell that I decided to put a second box of frames and just feed them from the front.

Hives 1 and 2, my hives from last year, are thriving with lots of bees and lots of activity. (I suspect that these two hives are the sources of the two swarms I've had.) Hive 2 is a four-box hive with a queen excluder between the top box and the other three. Hive 1 is a three-box hive with a queen excluder under the top box also. While there is a bit of honey in the top box of Hive 1, there is none in the top box of Hive 2. Nor were there very many bees in the top box of either hive. This was disappointing and disturbing.

So, I made a decision. I removed the queen excluders. (By the way, they are the thin plastic ones, and the openings seem pretty small. The bees have been filling some of them up.)

Did I do the right thing?

[Alan Forbes]

Yes and no.

There could be a few things going on that is causing reduced activity in your supers.  If there's no nectar flow, the bees won't work the supers.  If there is a nectar flow, they might still be filling the brood frames since the nursery gets first dibs. 

I'd leave the queen excluders on and wait for them to decide when they have a surplus.

BTW, are you currently having a nectar flow?

[doak]

I like using Queen excluder (ONLY) if the queen doesn't want to stay down in the established brood chamber.
To me this is either 3 mediums or two deeps.
(unless) i want to start another colony. put another box on and let her come on up and do her thing.
When the box gets full of ,brood, eggs get her back down and start another nuc/colony with that box.

When I do use the excluder I try to put a super that has an entrance in it.
There is some heavy traffic going in and out of the holes during a flow.
I do put holes in my supers, when not needed, the bees or myself will plug the hole.
During a heavy flow they will stand in line to get in. :roll: ;)doak

[Kathyp]

if you feel adventurous, you many want to consider splitting those big  hive.  if they are the source of your swarms, and still that big, they probably need it. 

i think you made the right decision in taking off the excluders.  if the bees are full below and not moving up, you are asking for more swarms.  if they are not full, you'll be able to keep a better check on them without the excluder.  when you see that they are working the honey supers well, you can put the excluder back on...and as doak suggested, you can use an upper entrance.  just don't give them more of an opening than they can defend or your honey supers will be robbed.

[NWIN Beekeeper]

Queen excluders are a debated topic. [like a beaten dead horse.]

Some say it will hinder nectar placement in upper supers.
Others say its all about how you use them.

If you have them on with nectar being placed in the supers, I would be patient.

Brood rearing consumes a lot of energy.
And if you have a huge emergence of brood, honey stores can be tapped until the population ages enough to be a foraging force. So it may appear that a flow begins and quickly slows, but often its other hive dynamics at play.
Look at brood conditions. Many eggs? Open larvae? Capped brood? Brood emergence?
Think about what that does in consumption of stores.
Think about how many bees it takes to cover and care for the brood.

I would make sure that there is an additional entrance above the excluder.
This minimizes most ill-effects that excluders are presumed to have on a hive.

Some of this depends on the personality of the hive.
I have some that love almost exclusively the upper entrance.
Others totally ignore it. Some will only use holes in the super.
It just depends on the colony.

[Did I do the right thing?]

I think you panicked.
Bees aren't hasty, try to keep your cool. 
Document what you are seeing for reference next year.
One's 'beekeeping sense' is built on observation.
One's 'beekeeping skill' is the reaction to those observations.

Try to ask question before you perform an action, not after the fact.
It doesn't make sense to undo, only to redo.
You are not alone, this is rampant problem.
A lot of members are doing before they think through the conditions or ask questions.

[Scadsobees]

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see the question or the answer to:

The boxes that were above the excluder...are they wax foundation, plastic foundation, or drawn comb?

You don't want to use excluders unless you are using drawn comb or at least until they have a really good start drawing out the foundation.

-rick