Planning Ahead - New Queens

Two Bees · May 13, 2008, 09:10:46 AM

I have been reading George Imirie's Pink Pages and (1) it's pretty clear that he was big on re-queening every year by Labor Day and (2) he must have hated being asked a question for the second time (just kidding)!

Question for you veteran beekeepers (not beehavers):

Should the new beekeepers that have installed new packages within the past 4-5 weeks be planning to requeen by Labor Day 2008 (this year) or Labor Day 2009 based upon George's law?

Kathyp · May 13, 2008, 11:29:48 AM

i have not read the pages yet, but unless you are raising your own queens, requeening every year would be expensive. if your queen is marked, you'll know how hold she is.

can't think of any reason i'd kill good queens every year....a bad one is another story.

bassman1977 · May 13, 2008, 11:36:24 AM

I agree with Kathy. I never requeen for the heck of it. I haven't had any issues because of not requeening. This goes back to what I was saying yesterday about trusting in your bees. If you leave them alone and trust in your bees, they will work it out. Sometimes it's obvious that requeening is necessary, but otherwise, if the bees want a new queen, let them decide it.

Two Bees · May 13, 2008, 02:47:01 PM

George details that the Number One reason for swarms is not having enough brood space. Number Two reason is a queen who is losing or has lost her phermones (sp) and the colony knows it. Number Three reason is not enough super space during a flow.

Kathy, he stresses that you should always have a marked queen. Otherwise, how will you know if your original queen has been superceded?

I believe that George operated his hives on a much more scientific level than I intend to operate mine. He did not like the idea of letting the colony raise there own queen because you never know what you are going to get. Kinda like a "box of chocolates"!

bassman1977 · May 13, 2008, 03:06:10 PM

I'm going to have to read these Pink Pages. I can see the point of marking them if you want to know if it's the original queen, but for me, I could care less if the queen was superceded. If there is one in the hive and she's healthy, productive and doesn't make a grouchy colony, I'm all set. Another thing that drives me insane is clipping wings. I can't see any point in it. To make the colony less prone to swarm? I think not. I think it makes the colony more prone to supercede the "damaged" queen. How many queens in the wild go to the barber after their mating flights are done to get a wing clipping?

Kathyp · May 13, 2008, 03:30:15 PM

i can see the value of marked queens if you have many hives. it would make keeping track easier. it's also probably handy for new beekeepers. i have never had marked queens and i don't care if they are superseded. if you are keeping a close eye on your hives, you will know if your queen is good, and you will know if the bees are going to replace her. by the time they decide to do it, you probably are better off letting them.

i think people have to find the management style that works for them. learn all you can and adapt it to your circumstances. if marking your queen becomes important to you, by all means, do it :-)

Brian D. Bray · May 13, 2008, 07:11:19 PM

Bees swarm because of congestion within the hive, that can come from either the brood area or storage area. One sigh of preswarming is back filling of the brood area with nectar during the active part of the season, after Labor Day I encourage it as it increases winter stores.
Keep the brood area open by rotating the frames on the outside edge of the brood chamber (not the outside edge of the hive) out and putting in empty comb or letting them build comb. This way the brood chamber never becomes congested.
Adding supers using the 70% rule will help keep a hive from swarming as the storage area is continually enlarged before the current one is filled out completely.
Bearding is another indicator of congestion. Bees hanging out all over the front of the hive means there's not enough room inside for them all to work side by side. Supering helps a lot. Better is the use of slatted racks to give the idle bees a place to hang out inside the hive where they don't interfere with operation they way bearding does. If you're using slatted racks and still get bearding the hive is probably on the path to swarming. Add a super or another slatted rack.
Use of all methods will usually keep a hive from swarming 2 years out of 3 and if you split judiciously you, theoretically, can go completely swarmless.

Michael Bush · May 13, 2008, 11:12:39 PM

I violate virtually all of George's laws regularly. I raise my own queens, I don't requeen unless I see a problem, I never reverse brood boxes, I never treat for diseases. I'm pretty much his definition of a bee haver.

Two Bees · May 14, 2008, 08:33:51 AM

Thanks, Mike and Brian for your insights. George does seem to get caught up in the scientific management of bee hives. And then beats you about the head and neck if you are not following his "rules"! I know that he had a gazillion years of experience keeping bees but I believe he also takes a lot of the fun out of it!

For example, I believe I read in the pages that he re-queens every year, but not with any old queen, just the queens that are available in the month of August! Kinda reminds me of "A Charlie Brown Christmas" where the kids are eating snowflakes and Lucy says "I never eat December snowflakes! I always wait until January."