"Ripping" wood

tillie · June 11, 2009, 01:36:45 PM

In fabric, ripping the fabric generally means making a small cut and then tearing the fabric, which results in the fabric tearing straight along a thread.

Does "ripping" wood imply the same thing - somehow tearing wood along the grain? Do you need a special saw? If you go crosswise is that not ripping since it's not along the grain? Is there another term for cutting across the grain?

If I'm making top bars for a KTBH, do they have to be cut with the grain of the wood? Or can they be cut across?

Linda T

Hethen57 · June 11, 2009, 02:08:15 PM

"Ripping" wood is where you cut strips along the length of a board (this is generally done with a table saw and a "fence" set at the distance from the blade of the width of rip. You could also do it with a straight line and a power hand saw. As you said, it goes along the grain of the wood. This is what you want for your top bars.

A "cross cut", as the name implies, goes across the grain. If you cross cut a thin strip, it is generally not going to be very strong because you have cut across all those grains and it will be somewhat brittle.
-Mike

NasalSponge · June 11, 2009, 10:38:27 PM

Mike is spot on!! You will want to rip top bars, crosscut wouldn't support much weight and would break with ease.

tillie · June 11, 2009, 11:56:42 PM

Well, you live and learn - I'm still recovering from finding out that a 2X4 is only 1 3/4X 3 3/4!

I wonder from a chicken or the egg perspective if the concept is based on ripping fabric along the "grain" which is along a thread in the length of the fabric.

My son-in-law has a table saw and understands this stuff and he is going to help me, but one of my friends in the bee club used molding for her bevels to get the bees building wax and someone suggested to me that I look for "firring" at Lowe's that might be the right width for top bars.

What a great resource all of you are!

Thanks,

Linda T in Atlanta

Ernest T. Bass · June 12, 2009, 12:29:15 AM

Quote from: tillie on June 11, 2009, 11:56:42 PM
Well, you live and learn - I'm still recovering from finding out that a 2X4 is only 1 3/4X 3 3/4!

Most 2x4s are actually 3.5''x1.5''.. Also, the larger the board gets the more they tend to plane off. We just bought some "2x10"s that are barely over 9''. We usually use full-sized rough cut lumber if possible. Though it's not graded, it's got to be a LOT stronger.

patook · June 12, 2009, 02:50:17 AM

Like a quarter pounder is 1/4 lbs BEFORE it is cooked, a 2x4 is 2"x4" before it is dried and shrinks down to the 1.5" x 3.5".

fermentedhiker · June 12, 2009, 08:27:16 AM

Quote from: patook on June 12, 2009, 02:50:17 AM
Like a quarter pounder is 1/4 lbs BEFORE it is cooked, a 2x4 is 2"x4" before it is dried and shrinks down to the 1.5" x 3.5".

That's not quite correct. A modern 2x4 was never really a 2x4 at any point in the production. They are milled that way from the start. They obviously are a little bigger when they are initially sawn but still not a full 2x4. As was mentioned earlier if you want a true 2x4 you have to request them. I can usually get them at a reasonably price from one of the local sawmills. Since my house is old enough to be built with true 2x4's it makes repairs/remodels easier to have the same dimension stock to work with.

annette · June 12, 2009, 12:00:43 PM

How exciting Linda that you will try a top bar hive, which I always wanted to try. Can't wait to read about it all on your blog.

Annette

Ernest T. Bass · June 13, 2009, 01:49:53 AM

Quote from: fermentedhiker on June 12, 2009, 08:27:16 AM
They obviously are a little bigger when they are initially sawn but still not a full 2x4.

Any rough-cut 2x4 I've used has been actually 2"x4". If they're cut on a bandsaw they might taper around a bit.. And a green 2x4 is only going to shrink about a sixteenth or so, unless it's really wet.

1reb · June 14, 2009, 09:18:26 PM

At the Sawmill I work at 2x4 is 1.706 x 3.950

Johnny

Ernest T. Bass · June 15, 2009, 01:30:22 AM

I suppose if your saw is capable of cutting very consistently, you might as well make the boards just a bit larger than their dressed dimensions to avoid wasting wood through the planer.

We often order our rough-cut lumber to be 1.5''x3.5'', in order to make it compatible with standard joist hangers, door jambs, etc. It's also about 30% cheaper...

fredtioga · June 26, 2009, 12:30:58 AM

Does anyone use rough-cut to make supers without planning it first? Would there be any problems?

BTW my house was built in 1913 with rough-cut hemlock, it is like iron to drive a nail in, and real 2x4's

2x4's changed size while I was remodeling in the 70's.

lakeman · June 27, 2009, 09:07:43 AM

Quote from: fredtioga on June 26, 2009, 12:30:58 AM
Does anyone use rough-cut to make supers without planning it first? Would there be any problems?

BTW my house was built in 1913 with rough-cut hemlock, it is like iron to drive a nail in, and real 2x4's

2x4's changed size while I was remodeling in the 70's.

True, 2x4's changed size in the 70's, but not from a true 2x4 to 1.5x3.5, through my lifetime in the building industry (in the 40's, 50's, 60's) , they were originally 1.625x3.625. In the 70,s they made the change to 1.5x 3.5, which was exasperating, as when you were home building, part of your supplies were 1.5x3.5, and others were 1.625x3.625, it made for some rough looking work.

fermentedhiker · June 27, 2009, 09:22:27 AM

Quote from: fredtioga on June 26, 2009, 12:30:58 AM
Does anyone use rough-cut to make supers without planning it first? Would there be any problems?

BTW my house was built in 1913 with rough-cut hemlock, it is like iron to drive a nail in, and real 2x4's

2x4's changed size while I was remodeling in the 70's.

I've never done it but it shouldn't cause any problems assuming you were using the inside dimensions for making you measurements. If you did that then you would just have a little extra material sticking out when stacked with standard equipment. It's more likely that if you were doing this by mistake that you would use the outside dimension which would make the interior of box a bit tighter which would make removing your first frame on an inspection more difficult and making it more likely that you would roll some bees pulling the initial frame.

lakeman · June 27, 2009, 03:28:26 PM

Quote from: fermentedhiker on June 27, 2009, 09:22:27 AM
Quote from: fredtioga on June 26, 2009, 12:30:58 AM
Does anyone use rough-cut to make supers without planning it first? Would there be any problems?

BTW my house was built in 1913 with rough-cut hemlock, it is like iron to drive a nail in, and real 2x4's

2x4's changed size while I was remodeling in the 70's.

I've never done it but it shouldn't cause any problems assuming you were using the inside dimensions for making you measurements. If you did that then you would just have a little extra material sticking out when stacked with standard equipment. It's more likely that if you were doing this by mistake that you would use the outside dimension which would make the interior of box a bit tighter which would make removing your first frame on an inspection more difficult and making it more likely that you would roll some bees pulling the initial frame.

I do not think anyone would be pleased with hives made from rough cut, as not only being off demension, the worst part is the roughness of the surface of the wood. In my construction days, and also having at one time owning and operating a sawmill, I can assure you you do not want to make your equipment out of unplained lumber,

Bee Happy · June 27, 2009, 03:53:37 PM

Somewhere in lumberland was once an accountant or board member [no pun intended] who said [probably]: "If you/we cut the boards at 1.7 x 3.95
then you/we can harvest an additional ______ # '2x4's' per million boards."