Entering winter without stores

[BjornBee]

 :pop:

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

What is the advantage of using fondant?

Water. The water content is the advantage.

:pop:

Okay, Mr. Standing-on-the-Sidelines. ;)

Have anything to add? Your winter is colder than mine, but your dearth is shorter. Any recommendations on quantities of semi-dry feed for these girls?

[bfriendly]

Hey!  Let's tone this back down to a useful discussion, everyone is welcome to contribute but no need to fight it out...

I am not trying to disqualify your comments regarding no top vent, ESPECIALLY in cold/ (therefore dry?) climates.  Where I keep bees it really doesn't get below freezing for much of the winter.  I have had better wintering success on hives with some sort of top vent vs none at all.  More recently, I HAVE COME TO THE BELIEF THAT GOOD TOP INSULATION (one form or another) IS USEFUL. 

I appreciate your link to bwrangler's web page... I have at times used entrance feeders for water / will try a plexi top this winter to observe for my self!

In many instances I have found a (migratory) top leaking lead to a dead colony come spring. 

All I was trying to say with dry sugar (also applies to candy board) is that I have seen situations where some colonies will starve before bridging the 1/2" + gap that they have eaten into a candy board or pile of dry sugar.  try to address this, if you can.  cheers

[Finski]

.
It is sad to see that Paraplegic Racehorse  is loosing his hives but he seems to be so stubborn that nothing helps. califordia beekeepers will not help you.

You have tried and that is it!  But it is not

In cold years often hive or more have intented to go into winter sleep. They are not interested in sugar feeding.

Another case is that they take very slow, half or other hives, and food is not enoygh. What to do.

In every case I have succeeded to give winter food in.

The main reason is that hive is cold.  When night is cold, bees retreet from feeding box and they return in late afternoon when syrup is warm.

Perhaps you have too much free space and bees try to keep brood warm.

1) In cold nights when temp goes down to freezing point, it is better that you do not give syrup before night, because bees do not take it. It only cools there. Give it in the morning +30C warm syrup, and put honey into bee space that robbers come to look what is there.

2) If bees are not interested in syrup and they are in winter cluster, there are methods:

a) Take capped frames from another hives or if you have capped honey, give them.
This method is good to small hives like nucs, whose capping will be slow for cold.

b) Pour syrup into combs of dip combs into syrup. Put that box under the wintering box. I have not seen a hive which will not wake upp from its winter sleep.
It will  be quite a mesh in the hive 2 days but they handle syrup however.

To handle dry sugar or "semi dry", bees need drinking water. It does not work in climate where bees will be inside hive all the time 5 months.
they will be sick.

[Finski]

There are many northern beekeepers that have had success using dry sugar.  Robo's "sugar boards" and "sugar frames"
have several advantages.  Fondant is quite a bit more work and I don't see any advantage to fondant.

Robo is fine feekeeper, but when I look where he lives, it is 42 latitude, which means on Europen map Spain and Italy.  The lenghtness of winter is important to bees.  Ilive 60 latitude and Italian winterin has not much to do with our wintering or with Alaska.

I have heard no one here who use dry sugar in winter. In spring emergency feeding it is common stuff.

How you give 20 - 25 kg dry sugar to the hive? Put it into water! it takes 2-3 days when it it inside the hive.

The biggest beekeeper here has 3000 hives and lives 50 km from me.
It is serious business here too and not old farts playing ground.

[Flygirl]

Hi All ~

Very interesting conversation.  I'm in Anchorage & the same thing is happening to my hives ~ they're eaten everything they stored.  It's amazing since we've had a beautiful, warm, summer.  I just started feeding warm syrup in baggies.  I should have been doing it since the end of August but I was out of town & life sort of got in the way of my beekeeping. 

I've never used the fondant ~ except in decorating cakes :)  I had a hive make it through last winter but they had two deeps of stores & in the early spring I fed patties & sugar. 

I'm enjoying Finski's information.  Thank you for sharing your experience since you are at a similar latitude as Alaska.  Last winter I didn't wrap my hives & one made it through the winter.  I'm thinking about using some foam board to insulate the sides & top with a top small vent to limit condensation (?). 

I'm trying something different every year in the hope of finding what works for me.  Just like everyone else :)  Lots of opinions & suggestions.  Happy Fall!  Flygirl!

[Finski]

.  Last winter I didn't wrap my hives & one made it through the winter.  I'm thinking about using some foam board to insulate the sides & top with a top small vent to limit condensation (?).  

I'm trying something different every year in the hope of finding what works for me.  Just like everyone else :)  Lots of opinions & suggestions.  Happy Fall!  Flygirl!

If you have there polystyrene bee boxes, bye those and bees have a good place for winter and spring build. The you need not wrapping.

If you put 20 mm stryrofoam plates on sides and over inner cover douple isulation, it is enough te. Winter shelter is important.

It is a bad thing that Alaska uses same hive stuff like Florida. Its meaning is greatis in spring development.

We have discussed with D i c k  a l l e n  from Anhorage in our forum. My opinion is that Alaskas bekeeping is not very advanced.

http://bees.freesuperhost.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1132603477

[Finski]

.  It's amazing since we've had a beautiful, warm, summer.  I just started feeding warm syrup in baggies.  I should have been doing it since the end of August but I was out of town & life sort of got in the way of my beekeeping. 

We had splended summer but our main yield did not came. Fireweed was so full of bumlebees that no chance to bees get nectar.
Somehow rape did not gove nectar.   2 years ago we had no bumblebees in flowers.

Raspberry bloomed enormously in June but then in july yield stopped.

I had 4 hives on 30 hectar fireweed area but nothing.

[BoBn]

but when I look where he lives, it is 42 latitude, which means on Europen map Spain and Italy.  The lenghtness of winter is important to bees.  Ilive 60 latitude and Italian winterin has not much to do with our wintering or with Alaska.

Flawed logic. 

Our continent is different than your climate. I live at 43,48 north.

Temperature in degrees Fahrenheit

Helsinki, Finland

Month   Average high   Average low   Record Warmest   Record Coldest   
JAN.      26      16      45      -33   
FEB.      27      15      50      -22   
MARCH      34         23        55           -13
APRIL      45      31      70      12   
MAY      59      41      82      25   
JUNE      66      49      86      30   
JULY      70      53      88      40   
AUG.      66      51      88      34   
SEP.      56      43      77      19   
OCT.      46      36      63      10   
NOV.      36      28      50      -4   
DEC.      30      20      48      -26   

Latitude: 60 degrees, 19 minutes north


New Hampshire, USA

Month   Average high   Average low   Record Warmest    Record Coldest
JAN.      26      6      55      -31   
FEB.      28      7      58      -28   
MARCH     35           16           68           -15
APRIL      47      28      82       4   
MAY      61      38      89      17   
JUNE      69      48      90      29   
JULY      73      53      91      32   
AUG.      71      51      89      33   
SEPT.      64      44      89      23   
OCT.      55      34      82      3   
NOV.      40      24      69      -1   
DEC.      29      11      61      -19   

Latitude: 43 degrees, 48 minutes north

[Finski]

Boath continents are big and New Hampshire is new Hampshire.

British too say that their island is so special that no others' knowledge work there.

narrowest point between England and Europe is 20 MILES.
We use to say  that it is reindeer's pissing

Because they are so special, their beekeeping 10-20 years after Europe. Everything is so national, so national.

So California knowledge works in north than Finnish knowledge. That is your headace. I have no troubles to winter bees and no feeding troubles. 

[Scadsobees]

Well, we all got winter here.   Let me tell you, NY is nothing like Spain or italy.  Even in California, northen california is different from southern california.  Keep in mind that Tasmania is closer to the south pole than you are to the north, and they are more like spain and italy.  Lat/long has less to do with local climate than does the ocean.  Your winters way up north are not as bad as our winters here way down south, or at least not much worse.
[Edit: ok, so I'm wrong about the Tasmania thing, but my point about the climate still stands]

Liquid feed is still best, if you can get them to take it.  If you can add some Honey b Healthy, or spearmint/lemongrass oil, that might stimulate them to take the feed better.

Other than that...fondant and/or sugar.  5 lbs of sugar poured on top of a sheet of newspaper on the top bars will do the same thing.

Do what you need to to get them through, regardless of your longitude.

[Finski]

.
What ever.
Every autum, when all brood have emerged, i take all honey away and and after that i give winterfood during one week.
When weather is cold, some hives need extra tricks to be feeded. After that hives are untouched 6 months. They do not need newspapers to read.
I have now 30 hives.

[Michael Bush]

With daytime temps in the 50s you can still give them syrup IF you warm the syrup.

[Paraplegic Racehorse]

Well, the sun came back (at least for a while) and they are finally taking syrup. I'm rapidly making fondant for placing into the hives toward mid/late October, though.