Foundationless Comb, Varroa and Southern California

Old Blue · October 21, 2009, 09:36:09 PM

Hi everyone!

I was hoping to find out if anyone has tried the foundationless comb technique that Mr Bush uses here in southern California.

I only have one hive (so far) and just found out that it has Varroa. Iv'e had the hive for a year and it has swarmed twice. I now think that I caused it both times by not providing it with enough room, and I am now hep to the 80/20 guidline regarding adding new boxes.

I'm hoping that someone who has experience or knowledge with our climate can tell me if foundationless comb (natural small cell) will control the mites out here, or does this method of control require a freeze cycle in the cold season?

I am hoping to run about 5 hives this coming year, hopefully saving my currrent one. And if I could coax them into making me a little honey (more than the one frame I got this year) that would be really neat!

Any thoughts?

Old Blue

David LaFerney · October 21, 2009, 10:07:48 PM

Thoughts - don't expect foundationless alone to control mites. At best it's going to be one part of a holistic strategy that includes mite resistant bees. My name is Dave - I'm foundationless, and I have mites.

Couldn't hurt though. At least I don't see how it could hurt.

BjornBee · October 21, 2009, 10:16:14 PM

You may find that foundationless and smallcell have nothing to do with each other..... ;)

One is natural, and the other is not.

Neither does what many claim it CAN do!

I have both. I promote natural foundationless. But it is not for reason to include "controlling mites".

jdpro5010 · October 22, 2009, 11:24:54 AM

I to am using foundationless hives. I like them because of the natural aspect (no chemicals in the wax), it is much cheaper to do, and the bees get what they like in cells as far as size and placement. If that helps with the mites in some way then so be it. I will still continue to monitor and take appropriate measures for mites when necessary. Please do not confuse small cell with foundationless beekeeping as there are definite differences!

Kathyp · October 22, 2009, 01:11:27 PM

i can tell you that foundationless will not control mites. according to the studies done, neither will small cell, but some swear by it. foundationless has some advantages. you'll find lots of info on here about foundationless.

all hives have mites. at some point, we all have to decide what to do about that. some treat and some don't. you'll find lots of info/arguments about that on here also :-D

you have mites, the questions are how many and what will you do about it?

Old Blue · October 23, 2009, 04:02:02 AM

Thanks for the replies.

Sorry to use the terms foundationless and small cell together, I'm still getting up to speed on the terms. I meant foundationless.

I'm reading as much as I can but have a fuzzy impression of how to deal with the mites. So far it sounds like there is a wide range of ways to react to them. If it is possible, I would like to not use any of the commercial treatments. It sounds like if I go this way I will need to be prepared to lose some hives as I develop my hives to deal with them or survive them. An experienced beekeeper is answering some of my questions but he hasn't been working bees for about six years since he lost everything in a fire. He always used apistan strips which I would like to stay away from.

I am keeping the bees in lot in a canyon. I have a general idea that I will just let the queens mate with the local population. Hopefully they can benefit from any feral population closeby. I'm going to try to set up for 5 hives. Probably a combination of captured swarms and splits of my current hive. I will try to get my hive to build foundationless with an experimental frame next time I open them up.

My name is Old Blue - and I have mites :(

Kathyp · October 23, 2009, 10:43:26 AM

the one down side to where you live is that you will not have a brood break, so you will have mite production, to some extent, all year. you can try things like powdered sugar dusting to knock the mite count down. you can force a brood break by caging your queen. you can buy 'resistant' stock. you can do nothing and just keep the hives that survive.

also consider putting yourself on the swarm catch list for your area and learning to do cutouts. if you are a member of a bee club, there may be someone there who can help you learn. it's one way to get survivor stock.

if you choose to use chemicals, try apiguard. it's about as natural a treatment you can get. your area would have great weather for using it almost any time of the year.

AR Beekeeper · October 23, 2009, 06:08:09 PM

Old Blue: If you are in an area of California that has the African Honey Bee be careful about mating with feral stock.

Grandma_DOG · October 24, 2009, 02:52:32 AM

Quote from: AR Beekeeper on October 23, 2009, 06:08:09 PM
Old Blue: If you are in an area of California that has the African Honey Bee be careful about mating with feral stock.

I like AHB, they are a bit testy but control SHB better. All my stock has some AHB in it. Only way I'm going to learn about AHB beeking in Tanzania to give a workshop next year.