Are they hot or am I clumsy?

[TheMasonicHive]

Hello everyone,


I went to check my hives yesterday and was pleased to see my original package bubbling with activity.  Lots of brood, lots of drawn comb...enough for me to put my second deep on which made me happy.

However, as a new beek I got stung 3 or 4 times in the glove.  I'm used to using gloves because of a safety factor, but I know it makes my movements and dexterity clumsy.  a bee will often get caught between my thumb and a frame.

I really don't know what I'm doing wrong, but my hive seemed a bit more on the edgy side.  I'm curious if this is just the new bees that have hatched that have a bit more of piss and vinegar in them, if the hive is hot, or if I'm simply making them angry with my inspections.

Furthermore, I think I may use too much smoke, but when I smoke like I'm directed to, bees start lining up on the top bars.  It seems like smoke is only effective or a minute or two before they start lining up.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

[Finski]

.
At least, if you go to look the hive near sunset, they will be angry.

On trick is that don't stand on wind side. Wind carry your odor into the hive.

When I have used blue shirt, I must retreet from hives. They are mad against blue, even calm hives.

[TheMasonicHive]

I always check in the early to mid afternoon.

Yesterday there was practically no wind.

I do however, wear a blue shirt.  They had no interest in the shirt however...they were honed in on my gloves.

[Scadsobees]

Are these white or light colored gloves?  I had a freind who wondered why his bees were so hot and I went over there and he had dark gloves on and a dark sweater  :roll:  They don't like dark.

There are lots of reasons...rain, wind, no sun can make them unpleasant to work with.  Your hives sound a bit smaller, they are more docile when smaller.

[Kathyp]

the bees will get on the top bars.  you can't keep them from doing that.  the smoke is only to help move some, but more to make them calm.  in a full hive, you will have bees under your fingers.  a few puffs in the entrance and on the top should do it.  you might need another or two if you are in there a long time.  don't over do it.

if you are wearing gloves, and i do, you just have to be a little more careful and  patient.  early, i found a frame grip to be helpful.  also using the hive tool to make sure the frames are loose before trying to lift.  i NEVER take a frame from the middle first.  i alway take one or two from the end and then slide the inner frames over.  this takes a little more time, but with gloves it gives you more room to work.  taking the outside frames away also give less chance of squishing your queen.

if you have been stung in those gloves you might want to consider washing them.  if you don't wash them, smoke them well before handling hive.

[TheMasonicHive]

I've considered a lot of these things Kathy.

My gloves are the khaki colored canvas ones from Dadant.

Yesterday was ideal.  We had sunshine, scattered clouds, it was about 75 degrees.

I always start by pulling out the wall frame, then use my hive tool to pry each apart (which hasn't been a huge problem yet because I'm not getting a very consistent build up of propolis.  I never start from the middle.

I always give a few puffs at the entrance, lift up the hive top feeder give a few long drawn out puffs, wait for 30 seconds or so, then lift it off to start my inspection.

I feel that I do my inspections in a very "text book" manner, I may use a little bit more smoke than necessary, but I think I'll take your advice and start using my frame grip more often, its just more awkward to flip the frame.

By the by, during my inspection I saw a lot of new eggs (with a nice tight pattern) but some of them weren't placed dead center of the cell.  Is this common?

[Wynoochee_newbee_guy]

pulling that first frame is the bugaboo. i have two hove tools that I use the standard pry/scraper. and
this one http://www.brushymountainbeefarm.com/Frame-Lifter-Hive-Tool/productinfo/762/. best of luck.

[Kathyp]

you may or may not like the frame grips.  they do help lift the frame and if you are feeling that is your clumsy time, they might be worth a try.  you can take them off as soon as you have the frame free.

yes, some eggs not perfectly placed is normal.

[JP]

I think it could be a little bit of both. What kind of bees? I would suggest paint stripping rubber gloves, ones I get are from Home Depot, a two tone blue. They give dexterity and bees can't sting through.

Of course there is nothing like going gloveless.


...JP

[ccwonka]

You'll not have to ask the question whether they are hot or not, if they are hot, they will be HOT.  Bees that shoot off the hive and launch into you when you are close.  Not warning but stinging.  They will boil out in numbers that are in the high dozens to hundreds, not 10's or 20's, or even 3 or four when you open the lid.  I had a hot feral hive last year, and they left NO doubt.

A few bees will almost always get what you are up to, and once one has stung your glove, the pheremone will encorage others to do so.  Even the gentlest of Honey Bees are programmed to protect their hive.  If your hive was hot I would have expected your glove to be bombarded after the first sting.  (beleive me, a hot hive can be disconcerting the first time you encounter it).  I would suspect that your bees are just fine.

Another trick to smoking them is to shoot a couple puffs in the front, then a couple in the top (just crack it open), put the top back on then walk away for few minutes.  This gives them time to settle in.  Then give them a puff or two once you actualy open it.  When I check I always smoke the hive that's "next" in the inspection before I open the one I'm currently looking at. 

Oh yeah, and if possible, put a book out by your hives open to a page about how they are supposed to react to smoke and be docile.  It's entirely possible that they haven't read it yet.  ;)

[TheMasonicHive]

JP, its a slippery slope.  You kinda convince yourself that you are better off wearing gloves because your clumsy nature WITH THE GLOVES creates stings, so you find yourself saying "Boy am I lucky I was wearing my gloves!"  And for the record I'm using Italians.

JP do you think you could post a picture here of the gloves you're refering to?

I use a hivetop feeder, and maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I smoke the entrance, take off the outer cover, smoke down into the slot for the HTF, lift the HFT and put long drawn out puffs underneath it.  I never "close" it back up with the outer cover for them to calm a bit...I think I may start trying that. 

Kathy, what are some disadvantages you've found with the frame grips?

[rgy]

i'm a newbee also.  less than a month with two hives, been in each four times.  I wear light blue latex like surical gloves covered with baby powder.  Some where I read that the bees like baby powder.  No stings.  i also read that if you do get stung to smoke the sting site to mask the danger scent!

[Scadsobees]

Well, if everything was ideal (it sounds like you were doing everying right), and you don't think that you did anything explicitly wrong, you'll be able to tell the next time you mess with them.  Once-off hotness can be any number of things, from the things mentioned to skunks to something as silly as acorns drumming down on the hives.  If it keeps up...well then you may want to requeen.  Some people don't mind cranky bees, I can't abide them.

And you can also tell by how they act just when you are near, if you go near the hive and they head butt you consistently, that is another sign.

As to gloves...I wore then for 5 years, only getting comfortable enough last year to ditch them.  I can tell you I inspect the bees and move far differently now than I did then, it is something that experience brings and isn't describable.  A friend who is starting this year sees me without gloves so he don't use them starting out either.

I used frame grips for a while, and they were nice, especially for a beginner, but I find now it is just easier to use my J-hook tool.  If I wasn't paying attention and keeping pressure on, occasionally I'd drop a frame (bad bad bad!!!) and the tool was a cheap one so it would make my fingers numb from the pressure of the handles cutting into my hand.

Rick

[JP]

JP, its a slippery slope.  You kinda convince yourself that you are better off wearing gloves because your clumsy nature WITH THE GLOVES creates stings, so you find yourself saying "Boy am I lucky I was wearing my gloves!"  And for the record I'm using Italians.

JP do you think you could post a picture here of the gloves you're refering to?

I use a hivetop feeder, and maybe I'm doing something wrong.

I smoke the entrance, take off the outer cover, smoke down into the slot for the HTF, lift the HFT and put long drawn out puffs underneath it.  I never "close" it back up with the outer cover for them to calm a bit...I think I may start trying that. 

Kathy, what are some disadvantages you've found with the frame grips?

http://picasaweb.google.com/pyxicephalus/March122008#5177060042776608722

As mentioned bees can be pissy for a variety of reasons. I give them say 4-5 inspections under varying weather fluctuations usually over the course of say 3-5 weeks to prove themselves one way or the other.

If the verdict is HOT, time to requeen.


...JP

[Superdog]

One more idea....  if they are on the defensive allot, it could be from skunks.  Around here, if skunks keep messing with the hive at night, the bees seem a bit more edgy the next day.  Just a thought.

[TheMasonicHive]

Someone has to explain what the heck this "headbutting" is.  I didn't know that an insect could head butt you.

[ccwonka]

Headbutting;
Where a bee comes up to you and says something quietly to you so you lean in a little, then **BANG** without moving their body they rear their head back and connect forheads with you.  Can be moderately devestating!  :-D

but really, a bee will "bump" you several times as a warning before it stings . . . they often go for the head as that seems to be far more effective at "posturing" a potential hazard away from their hive without stinging.  But I like my first explanation better.

[Kathyp]

it's one more thing to remember, or forget.  as you noted, it's more difficult to handle the frame once it's out, so you end up taking the frame grip off and that adds another step. 

i still use them sometimes.  i have carpel tunnel that causes me to be pretty clumsy and not have much grip sometimes.  the frame grips are good for that.  nothing worse than starting to pull a frame and having it drop back into the hive.  talk about pissy  :-)

if you find you can go gloveless, that might solve most of your problem.  i can't because when i get stung i swell up like the Great Pumpkin.   :-D

[Scadsobees]

Someone has to explain what the heck this "headbutting" is.  I didn't know that an insect could head butt you.

Oh, sorry, I get a little mixed up, sometimes my bees come up to me and call me a butthead.

:-D  No, really, when they are somewhat aggravated, when they fly up to and then hit you without stinging.  Often they try to scare you off first before going with the final option.

[MustbeeNuts]

Its becasue they have passed the concealled weapon permit class, they define when lethal force is neccesary. Lethal for them that is.