Missing Queen/No Brood

[dp]

I'm new to beekeeping.  Recently bought two existing hives.  Upon inspection of the hives, one looks like the pictures I've seen online - quite a bit a brood, lots of honey, etc.  Couldn't locate the queen, but being as new as I am and with the # of bees in the hive, that isn't surprising.  The other hive however, has a lot of bees, has a few queen cells, very few brood and virtually no honey compared to hive #1.  Again, I couldn't locate a queen, lots of drones though. 

Questions:  Is the queen most likely gone?  How long will the hive survive without one?  If they raise a new queen, how soon will I know?  Should I just order a queen and add it?  If I do order a queen and place it in the hive body, if indeed I had missed the other queen, what will happen when I have two queens in there? 

I feel a little stupid asking all of these questions, and maybe I'm worried about nothing.  If there are other things that I need to look for, I'm all ears!

[troutstalker2]

   Ok DP, step back and take a deep cleansing breath ;). First off, not finding the queen when you are not used to doing it is not unusual. If I find brood is different stages of development, then I'm not concerned so much about finding the queen. You can look for eggs and you will for sure have a queen, But me eyes are a bit weak, so young brood is good enough for me. As far as the "other" hive, if they have queen cells, let nature take its course. They are replacing her or superceding her. If you introduce a queen to a queenright hive they will kill the new queen.
 I know the feeling of being a new beek, the first year is full of questions and anticipation. Join a bee club, read about beekeeping and ask questions here if your stumped. I'm not nearly as experienced as others here, but we all remember what it was like when we first started.
 

David
 

[Two Bees]

Agree with Trout, I don't like to spend the time to actually find the queen.  Usually I find her about 50% of the time.  I look for the cascade of brood.  The "cascade" that I am referring to is capped brood, large larvae, medium larvae, small larvae and eggs, as you scan the frame.  Chances are she has been in the area of eggs within the past 2-3 days.

If I see this transition of capped to very small larvae, I am happy!  Even though my eyes won't let me actually see the eggs most of the time!   :-D

[sarafina]

To answer your question about how long before the new queen will start laying:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beesmath.htm

Michael Bush's website is packed full of great information that he willingly shares with us.

I can't see eggs, either due to my poor eyesight but I am happy if I see the white larvae curled up in their cells.

[Kathyp]

sounds like they might have swarmed.  there may very well be a new/virgin queen in there or one coming.  check again in a few days.  look for eggs or very small larvae.  check those queen cells and see if they have hatched out.  let us know what you find and we can help you with other steps if needed.

[dp]

Ok, I checked them again.  There is brood in the weaker hive (the one that I thought might be queenless), so I feel a little more relaxed.  There isn't a very solid covering of brood cells through...would this be an indication that I should think about re-queening in the fall? 

Everyday, I find dead bees near the entrance.  What is a normal # of dead bees?

Thanks for all of your answers.  This forum has a plethora of info!

[Kathyp]

i'm guessing that what you have is a new queen.  she's just getting started.  give  her a chance.  if the numbers are down in the hive she will only lay what they bees can care for.  if the brood pattern is nice and tight, even if there is only a small patch, that's what you are looking for.

just be sure that it's not all drone brood.  that would be a bad thing  :-)

bees die every day.  workers carry them out.  you have old bees if you had no queen for a bit. 

[riverrat]

you said you saw numerous queen cells on first inspection I would say they was being tore down your hive had swarmed and you now have a newly mated queen that has just started to laying the hive will weaken until ne wbrood starts to emerg it should be fine keep an eye on it

[dp]

Well, I finally got a break in the weather so I could work my bees yesterday. 

Hive #1 is doing great, lots of bees, I couldn't locate the queen, but I'm not worried about it.  Not a lot of brood, honey or pollen, but our weather has been terrible in the NW.

Hive #2 is doing poor.  This is a two deep, and has either swarmed or had a bad die off.  Lots of dead bees in the bottom.  Top deep barely has any bees and the bottom deep has quite a few bees, but probably only about half the # that were there two weeks ago.  I did locate the queen.  I watched her for several minutes and never saw her lay an egg (maybe that is normal?).  Not much brood, but there was some sporadic brood and larvae.  Questions:  Do you think they have replaced the queen and she is just getting started?  Do you think I have a poor queen that I should replace?  Should I be feeding sugar water to both of these hives? Pollen Patties?  There was one frame with empty queen cells on the bottom.  I don't know what to think.  I'm worried that during one of our torrential downpours, that water entered the bottom of the hive?  I've since replaced the hive bottom with a screened bottom.

Anything else I should be looking for or doing?

[Kathyp]

the weather has been bad.  what did the stores look like?  if they don't have food, they can't care for brood.

next weekend is supposed to be pretty nice, but bad for this week.  if they have no stores, feed.  blackberries should be coming soon and better weather will let them get out.

spring can be dangerous for us.  especially this one.  it was warm early and the built up fast.  with a month of rain and cold, they are at risk of starving if we don't watch it.

[dp]

OK Kathy.  Lots of dead bees at the entrance today.  Not a lot of coming and going, while the hive next to it is a constant buzz with lots of bees out and about.

I'm afraid they are starving.  There was very little honey and very little pollen.  Blackberries are coming, but I'm not sure soon enough.  I think I'm going to do a baggie with 2:1 sugar mix.  Good idea or bad idea?  Closest place to get a pollen pattie is Eugene, and I can't get there during their store hours.  I can order one and have it here in a few days.  Again, should I or not?

[Kathyp]

wouldn't worry so much about the pollen.  if they need it, i'd feed syrup, but 1:1.

[dp]

great...I'll give it a try and see if they take it up.  Do you think I'm accurate that they are starving...hence all of the dead bees on the doorstep?

thanks

[dp]

I've been feeding them 1:1 using a baggie, and they have been gobbling it up :)  I decided to check them out today, since there is about 1/8 the activity in this hive vs. the strong hive that I have.  The bottom deep has most of the bees.  The top deep has very few bees, but some brood that I'm not sure is still alive.  It looks a little strange, with some of the bees looking like they died while emerging???

After looking things over, I found about 4 uncapped queen cells, but I saw the queen a week ago, and there was some uncapped larvae, so I know the queen is alive and "well". 

A week ago, I replaced the bottom board with a screened bottom board and see a lot of dead bees in the bottom and quite a few larvae that was dead as well.  I guess I'm freaking out a little here, wondering if they were just starving, or if I have another problem  I'm going to continue the feeding regiment until we get a good flow going here.  We just can't seem to lose the rain in the Pacific NW this year, so I know it has been a hard year on bees, but this hive is really struggling.

I've attached some pictures.

[dp]

not good on the pictures yet....Hopefully they are on this post.

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/6208/p6050057.jpg
http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/3135/p6050055.jpg