Sumac for smoke? Poison Sumac?

[harvey]

All my life I grew up with people calling the sumac around here poison sumac?  Now i see bee keeps around here using it for smoke?  I was told to just cut the red flowers or berries off and use that for smoke.  K. I got to large zip lock bags full right now but is it poison in any way or was what I heard growing up wrong?  Also do I have to let it dry or use it fresh?

[Jim134]

Here are some pic of poison sumac


http://www.poison-sumac.org/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_sumac
http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/trees/tove.html

You use Staghorn Sumac for bees

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhus_typhina

          BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[manfre]

If it's actually poison sumac and not one of the not so dangerous varieties, don't use it. I know someone who got a lifetime of respiratory problems from burning a log with poison ivy in their fireplace. The poison sumac oils are worse than poison ivy.

[harvey]

Wow thanks for the posts and pictures Jim,  Very helpful.  Guess even in boy scouts they had me fooled that the staghorn sumac was poisoness.   Nice to know.   

[Livefreeordie]

Wow thanks for the posts and pictures Jim,  Very helpful.  Guess even in boy scouts they had me fooled that the staghorn sumac was poisoness.   Nice to know.   

Harvey,
I think you were not paying attention and probably had your mind on girl scouts. I was a scout too, and we learned the difference between poison sumac and staghorn sumac. We used the red drupes to make Indian Tea. You can also dry it and grind it up as a spice that adds a tangy flavor to meat dishes. Trappers also use it to dye their traps with. The leaves can also be smoked as a tobacco, ( no you won't get high ) although being a non smoker, I haven't given that a whirl.
I did NOT know it could be used as fuel for the smoker, and with the quantity we have around here, perhaps after some input from others as to it's safety, I should gather some and dry it.

[BjornBee]

Thank you Jim.

I did not know any of that.

Very helpful.

[Jim134]

 

 Staghorn Sumac smoke will cause Varroa mites to drop off the bees. I do not know the % of the mites that drop but if you run Screen Bottom Boards the mites that do drop are gone.



    BEE HAPPY Jim 134  :)

[BjornBee]

While this same comment can be seen with sumac, walnut leaves, tobacco and a host of other items, to even include essential oils, we should make it clear, that it may not be the actual smoke that causes the mites to drop.

When you smoke the bees, you are coating them with a residue that interferes with the natural smells within a hive. It the same if you smoke your arm at lunchtime, you can smell the smoke at dinner, unless you wash it off somehow. The bees will groom everthing in the hive in attempts to rid themselves of the foreign smell.

What this residue does, is cause the bees to into a very hyperactive grooming period, and the results are that many mites are groomed off. Ironically, this behavior has been seen by simply opening up the hive without smoke, but on a smaller level. If you interrupt the bees normal activities, and perhaps by the nature of something simple as breaking some burr comb or a propolis seal, triggers the bees to want to make everything right again, and that includes grooming, hygienic behavior, etc.

No study or research that I know of has ever shown that the mites simply are killed due to the use of any smoke. Although the irritant may cause the mites to become active, and possibly lose grip from the bees, allowing the bees to better cope with cleaning them off. In the past, some have mentioned they smoke with sumac to "kill" the mites. I would think if your smoking on a level that you are outright killing mites off the back of bees, you are no doubt also doing tremendous damage to bees.

The mention of SBB is right on the mark. No reason to seek good grooming bees or worry about mechanisms for increased grooming traits, if you are not allowing the bees to drop through and out of the hive.

[Jim134]

While this same comment can be seen with sumac, walnut leaves, tobacco and a host of other items, to even include essential oils, we should make it clear, that it may not be the actual smoke that causes the mites to drop.

When you smoke the bees, you are coating them with a residue that interferes with the natural smells within a hive. It the same if you smoke your arm at lunchtime, you can smell the smoke at dinner, unless you wash it off somehow. The bees will groom everthing in the hive in attempts to rid themselves of the foreign smell.

What this residue does, is cause the bees to into a very hyperactive grooming period, and the results are that many mites are groomed off. Ironically, this behavior has been seen by simply opening up the hive without smoke, but on a smaller level. If you interrupt the bees normal activities, and perhaps by the nature of something simple as breaking some burr comb or a propolis seal, triggers the bees to want to make everything right again, and that includes grooming, hygienic behavior, etc.

No study or research that I know of has ever shown that the mites simply are killed due to the use of any smoke. Although the irritant may cause the mites to become active, and possibly lose grip from the bees, allowing the bees to better cope with cleaning them off. In the past, some have mentioned they smoke with sumac to "kill" the mites. I would think if your smoking on a level that you are outright killing mites off the back of bees, you are no doubt also doing tremendous damage to bees.

The mention of SBB is right on the mark. No reason to seek good grooming bees or worry about mechanisms for increased grooming traits, if you are not allowing the bees to drop through and out of the hive.

  (Sumac  smoke) I do not care why the mites drop off as long as it is on the SBB


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[Jim134]

 

The mention of SBB is right on the mark. No reason to seek good grooming bees or worry about mechanisms for increased grooming traits, if you are not allowing the bees to drop through and out of the hive.

:?  BjornBee You got small bees or big mesh hardware cloth.  :?

   

                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[skflyfish]

Staghorn sumac berries, which are ripe now on our side of the state, makes a wonderful tea for iced tea.

Around here the bees and rose bugs love the young flowers.

Jay

[Paynesgrey]

Staghorn sumac safe to use. Lots of beekeepers use it. We have some in yard, but are saving it this year for seed, to plant a row, because the bees love it so much.

Poison Sumac NOT SAFE. As posted above, the smoke is VERY toxic, has the same urishol (sic) that poisong ivy and Oak have. Inhaling the smoke can even kill you that very day, as well as leave you with lasting breathing problems.

[joker1656]

Since I read this thread I looked up both plants.  One of the articles mentioned taking the Staghorn Sumac and using the berries to make "pink lemonade".  ???  Anyone tried that?

I think I missed something, but when you use the Sumac for smoke, are you using the dried berries, or the leaves?

[Jim134]

 I was told to just cut the red flowers or berries off and use that for smoke.  

I think I missed something, but when you use the Sumac for smoke, are you using the dried berries, or the leaves?

joker1656........


        Pic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rhty_002_lhp.jpg

 You use the red tops (flowers or berries) of Staghorn Sumac  hope this will help you. I'v use Staghorn Sumac  for bee smoke for 5 years and SBB it works for my.


   BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[BjornBee]

The mention of SBB is right on the mark. No reason to seek good grooming bees or worry about mechanisms for increased grooming traits, if you are not allowing the bees to drop through and out of the hive.

:?  BjornBee You got small bees or big mesh hardware cloth.  :?

   

                  BEE HAPPY Jim :)

:-X Shhhh....I'm just playing with other people's minds and yankin their chain.... :-D

Nice catch. My Bad!  :roll: