Two Ft Long Swarm & 3 Queens Discovered Being Balled

[Apis_M_Rescue]

Had a swarm from a hive & robbing going on at it even more on a 90 deg Monday round 2:45 - 7pm. Closed up what I could & watched swarm disband 3 times & regroup on same spot 20ft up on oak tree. During that time clumps of bees fell outta oak tree & could see balls rolling & making louder buzz on ground. It was raining bees,lol :lau:

Had time to investigate & disbanded 3 such balls in a plastic container. Might of been more? Used water sprinkled on bee balls to disband, as workers were attached like glue. Sure enough I found a darker queen in center of one ball. She was looking disoriented & outta sorts & I put her in empty deep to see if any would follow her, but only 2 workers did. The other 2 were lighter queens & I kept them in container w/ little honey to see what will happen to them today.

My newbee questions, I thought balling occured in the mother hive or in the swarms choosen new home but this swarm seemed to have open air combat from within? Were these afterswarms tryin to combine? Were these skinnier queens all virgins? This 2nd year has been w/ so much action & year still isn't over & still much to learn. If I had more land & bee boxes would have been w/ 50 plus hives in San Gabriel Valey. What a swarming August. Gotta get out & inspect bees today & see if can get that swarm if still there.

Cheers, David S

[Michael Bush]

All swarms ball the queen.  The swarm is sort of a big ball around the queen, but she is usually in a ball where they protect her.  Many swarms have multiple queens.  I think the pheromones of swarming get in the air and several hives that are on the verge may swarm at the same time and no one can really sort out who is who in the chaos.

[Apis_M_Rescue]

All swarms ball the queen.  The swarm is sort of a big ball around the queen, but she is usually in a ball where they protect her.  Many swarms have multiple queens.  I think the pheromones of swarming get in the air and several hives that are on the verge may swarm at the same time and no one can really sort out who is who in the chaos.

This balling was of the killing kind not of the  protective kind. Michael, are you saying the  worker bees balling queens are loyalists to the prime swarms queen & in confusion of the moment just trying to thermally kill competing queens to further their swarms chances of survival? Do you have any links or books that describe this outside of the hive viscous balling & observations/explainations & such? Here is one bee balling I caught in the throws, queen was half dead & latter all queens died:

Bees Balling Queen

Last swarm took off next day before I could come. I checked swarmed/ robbed hive Friday & it was w/ many frames of pollen but no honey stores. Wax moths were moving in & brood was very low count & couldn't find queen & many workers dead & wax everywhere. Sadly should have spent more time w/ this fast paced vigorous hive that got away to say the least. No time to cry as many bees to feed. Check came in & more equipment to build & opening of land to terrace for more bees to place.

David S

[Michael Bush]

No.  I'm saying they are trying to protect her in swarm.  But swarms do get confused and I don't know what kind of loyalty everyone has.  Bees balling a queen in defense sometimes kill her eventually, but not usually and almost never quickly.  They often calm down and let her go.