Simple combining question

Started by Culley, September 06, 2010, 11:15:44 PM

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Culley

September 06, 2010, 11:15:44 PM
I made some splits to take advantage of swarm cells. All but one are laying now.

The queenless one is very buzzy and defensive. It doesn't have any brood left.
I've never combined two colonies before.

I want to combine the queenless colony with a single deep newly laying colony beside it.
I've gradually moved one so now they're right next to each other.
Should I put the colony with the queen on top or underneath?
Should I give the top one a top entrance?
Will one layer of newspaper with a little tear be enough?
Should I manage it so that the flying bees each go to their respective boxes?

Thanks.

hardwood

#1
September 06, 2010, 11:45:25 PM
You can do a newspaper combine if you're sure that one hive doesn't have a queen or laying workers. 1 or 2 sheets is good with a couple of slits. You can also (if in any doubt) move the queenright hive to the (supposedly) queenless hive location, shake out the queenless hive and remove it.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Culley

#2
September 07, 2010, 12:01:00 AM
So the latter method would combine them on the spot, rather than using newspaper..
But wouldn't they fight?

hardwood

#3
September 07, 2010, 12:05:29 AM
Not if they are queenless.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

TwoHoneys

#4
September 07, 2010, 07:34:02 AM
Just to follow up a bit about shaking the (supposedly) queenless bees out and removing their hive:

If the shaken bees DO have a queen, what will they do once their hive is removed? Will they stay with the queen (if so, where?) or will they eventually join the hive that's known to be queen right?

Liz
"In a dream I returned to the river of bees" W.S. Merwin

Culley

#5
September 07, 2010, 07:40:59 AM
Thanks Scott.
I combined them this afternoon with three sheets of newspaper. I was pretty sure they're queenless. I put the queenless colony on top with a top entrance. The flying bees mostly went in the bottom. Lots of smoke. No signs of fighting.

Interesting question Liz - I'd like to know too.
If they all got shaken in front of the other hive in the same place, and the queen was shaken too, what would happen? Might they abscond? Or might the queen follow the drift of the bees as they make their way into the hive, or stay and be abandoned?

AllenF

#6
September 07, 2010, 01:43:10 PM
How long has it been since you made the splits or saw the queen cells in the hive before you combined?

hardwood

#7
September 07, 2010, 01:56:23 PM
If the hive you shake has a queen there is a good chance that they'll all gather as a swarm would and leave.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Culley

#8
September 07, 2010, 09:26:43 PM
I started the splits by dividing the queen cells out, not killing any
the hive in question had more flying bees than the others
August 16: hive swarmed
August 17: swarmed again    - I caught both, both had virgin queens as expected
August 19: all queen cells in hive opened/chewed
August 28: different swarm from Aug 18 has started laying
August 31: five hives start laying at once, incl. Aug 16 swarm and the other splits
September 7: did combination - it's day 19 since the queen cells were spent

Figured the queen was maybe damaged by second swarm queen before she left?  There were four or five queen cells.
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