what should I expect by now? after 1 month.

[Algonam]

This is still my first season at this.
To recount the sequence of events quickly:
Last wk of May rec'd 2 nucs-4 frames in each and I installed them each into 10 frame boxes.
1 hive has always seemed to be much stronger than the other.
As of last week the strong hive had drawn out most of the frames-all but the 2 end frames, so I installed a queen excluder on this one and put a super on top with 10 frames of foundation.
Tonight I inspected the weaker of the 2 hives expecting it to be strong enough to super.
I found the 2 outer frames on each end still hadn't been drawn out. I am going away on vacation so I put the queen excluder in anyway and added a super on top with frames of foundation.
I really don't know what I am doing at this point and hope I did the right thing.

Any advise would be helpfull..

What should I be expecting after the first month?
Am I on track? Did I super too soon?

[AllenF]

Why did you put an excluder on?   They will do better without an excuder on undrawn frames. 

[schawee]

you're on track but i wouldn't put the queen excuder on .you really don't need one.most of us here don't use them at all.to me it slows down the progress of the hive alot.that's  just my opinion .        ...schawee

[Algonam]

I thought the queen is best to remain in the main bottom box producing brood and the next box up is just honey for them to use for winter. Anything above the 2nd box can be used for my consumption.

please correct me if I am totally wrong on this.

(I don't have anyone guiding me along who can come to view my hives with me to show me)

[FRAMEshift]

I wouldn't extract or make cut comb from a brood nest frame anyway.  Just harvest the all-honey frames from the storage area of the hive and you won't have to concern yourself with larvae/cocoons in your tea.  :-D

[Algonam]

I am really confused now. My beekeeping book says it can be done in many ways, now that I read it again....
The 2nd box up is too be hopefully full of honey to be used as food to get them through our winter....right?

Could this order of things be dependant on climate?

I feel so useless when I don't know what I am doing.

In what situations does the QE go on top of the main box (broodnest)?

[mikecva]

I use all mediums. What I did is dedicate three mediums (same as 2 full boxes) for the bees brood area. The first year, I did not plan on any honey for me so I had no reason to use an excluder. The bees did great. Good luck with your bees, they will give you much pleasure in just watching them.

[Algonam]

So if I don't use the excluder they won't fill everything with brood? and they will have enough in stores for winter?
You are right, at this point it is important to have strong hives and any extra honey would be a bonus.

[mikecva]

In your 2 full boxes you will find a colony shaped much like a Rugby ball, and will be in the center of the boxes. You should end up with about 50 pounds of honey and pollen for the bees to winter on. Frames 1,2 9 & 10 will most likely be honey, depending on what your bees like to do. 4 frames times 2 boxes at 7 pounds per frame is 56 pounds of honey. You will find honey and pollen on frames 3-8 around the colony.

Remember to have fun and ask as many questions as you need.  -Mike

[Algonam]

Oh, I am having fun with them now. I have to admit I get stressed when I don't know if I am doing the right thing. The written instructions that came with the nucs said to use the queen excluder and then super on top once I reached this point.
Is it possible that both ways will work?

Also, what should I expect at this point? (my original question)

;)

[caticind]

Algonam, the bees are able to figure how how much brood to rear based on available food.  They will not fill all space with brood and store no honey, but they probably will have both brood and honey on most frames.  Most people who use an excluder do so in the belief that it will keep their honey frames free of larvae for easier harvest....well it will do that but also will slow down the hive.

If you are mainly interested in having strong hives, take the excluder off as soon as you can and just worry about making sure they have enough open space.  If they fill it give them more and they will store plenty of honey if they can.

For the end of the first month it is good that the bees have drawn out the whole bottom box.  They are doing well, and you did the right thing by going ahead with the supers.  Just no need for the excluder.

[Algonam]

Thanks Caticind,

How about I do remove the excluder now and what about putting it on once that 2nd box is full as anything produced above that 2nd box could be just for my consumption. What do you think?
:needhelp:

[caticind]

You can if you want but there is no need to use a queen excluder for that.

The skill that you're going to want to develop is judging how much honey is stored in the hive (on the tops of brood frames, on storage frames close to the brood nest, as well as in the supers).  You can get advice about how much honey the colony needs to survive the winter.  This varies depending on your bees and your climate.  Up north they say you want at least 40 pounds (a medium full of just honey) or more.  In NC I have successfully overwintered colonies with half that amount.

Once they have enough stored (or even before, if you know there is a fall flow in your area from goldenrod, etc.) you can think about whether you should take any of the surplus.  When there is surplus should be based on how much honey they have, not where it is located.

This is why I think queen excluders are a poor idea.  Beeks get into the habit of thinking "anything above this line is mine".  But the excluder slows hives down and often they end up producing less over all.  If the bottom box is all they have for brood they may not reach the numbers they need to forage a lot.  It is best to let the bees sort out how much space they need for brood. 

Besides, it's a bit unusual for hives to produce a big surplus of honey in their first year.  Better to let them get as strong as possible this year so they will produce more for you next year!

[Algonam]

That sounds logical to me.
I have been told around here to have a full super for winter. ie:60 lbs for their winter consumption. Probably because the growing season is shorter than most of you in the US. Northern NY has roughly 4 to 5 weeks of additional growing season than us based on when I saw their apple blossom this Spring. Our apple blossoms and lilac are mid May and not much is growing after August, unless I am missing something. I'll be watching much closer this year. (I have never been as aware of what it and isn't in bloom!) Right now they are all over the loose strife.
It would be nice to get some honey this year but it is more important to have strong hives for next year.

[caticind]

That sounds logical to me.
I have been told around here to have a full super for winter. ie:60 lbs for their winter consumption. Probably because the growing season is shorter than most of you in the US. Northern NY has roughly 4 to 5 weeks of additional growing season than us based on when I saw their apple blossom this Spring. Our apple blossoms and lilac are mid May and not much is growing after August, unless I am missing something. I'll be watching much closer this year. (I have never been as aware of what it and isn't in bloom!) Right now they are all over the loose strife.
It would be nice to get some honey this year but it is more important to have strong hives for next year.

If you don't have much fall flow, then probably you should not expect honey this year.  Your nuc is doing well to be into their second box, but if you need 60+ pounds without fall flow, then they are likely to need every ounce they gather.  And you might find yourself feeding them come October.

Take this year as time to learn your local flows - when you examine the hive, look at the nectar coming in and see how many different types you can identify by color and smell (if you get goldenrod honey your nose will tell you!!).  Combined with the time of year you see it and a chart of local average bloom times you can build up and understanding of what resources your bees have access to.

That way next year you'll know when the biggest flow is, when it is most important for the bees to have as many foragers as possible (meaning a big, unrestricted brood nest), and when you can afford to steal some honey for yourself!

[FRAMEshift]

Remember that the bees have no idea what a super or a brood box is.  They optimize the amount of brood and honey storage for their own growth and reproduction.  The bees will set aside certain frames as "honey only" and those are the ones to harvest.... IF they have enough honey in other frames to make it through the winter.  

[T Beek]

A first year colony should not be expected to produce honey for the beekeeper, that is rare.  Taking it from them the first year can/does spell doom for such colonies, forcing the beekeeper to feed, feed, feed to make up for what was taken.  You're in Canada, I would think you should shoot for 100 lbs of honey "for your bees."  Its what I try for in North Western Wisconsin.  I'd rather leave them too much than not enough.  If you get a flow come late summer, early fall, maybe take a frame or two, maybe.  With first year colonies I personally don't take anything till Spring when the dandilions bloom.

I only use a queen excluder to locate a queen when bees are occupying several boxes, for me its the only 'good' use and I'll use it to get honey upstairs but only after I've lured them up with a small bit of brood comb.  Good luck.

thomas

[Brian D. Bray]

Oh, I am having fun with them now. I have to admit I get stressed when I don't know if I am doing the right thing. The written instructions that came with the nucs said to use the queen excluder and then super on top once I reached this point.
Is it possible that both ways will work?

Also, what should I expect at this point? (my original question)

;)

The written instructions are the same as found in many bee books and is one of the sources of bad beekeeping.  After all, if your hive fails they have another customer next year--just human nature.

Here is what you need to do between now and September.
1. Remove the excluders, just remove the top box, remove the excluder and replace the top box.
2.  Bees will build combs only on frames they occupy, there must be enough bees in the hive to force the bees to another frame before they will begin to draw it out.  The way to speed this up is that bees will readily move off of storage combs but not off of brood combs plus the outside frames occupied by the bees are almost always used for stores.  So move those outside frame, occupied by bees, out one space and fill the new space with undrawn frames which the bees will then draw out.
3. Move up those outside storage combs into the upper box and place them towards the center so that there is 2 undrawn frames between them.  This will act as bait to draw the bees up into the upper box, they will then begin building storage combs if all the lower frames are drawn or the population is sufficient to force the bees upward.
4.  To have sufficient stores for a normal winter above the 54th parallel the hive should have at least the equivalent of 2 deep boxes of stores (3 mediums).  When the hive has all frames drawn and capped honey, except a small brood area (the size of a twoney on two or 3 frames) in the center of the cluster and have begun drawing burr combs between the boxes, joining the frames of the top and lower boxes, and between the inner top and the top of the frames of the upper box, then they are ready for winter.

If you have one box of drawn combs and one box of undrawn frames you can leave them alone for up to 3 weeks without them outgrowing the given space during the hives 1st year of development.

Never count on a honey crop the 1st year of development.  The 1st year is for the hive, the second year is for the beekeeper.  If you do get a surplus, that's serendipity.