How to get the bees to draw comb faster?

[bayareaartist]

How to get the bees to draw comb faster?

I was wondering how to get my bees to draw comb faster.
I had sugar syrup on the hive in a 2-1 water sugar ratio but they stopped taking it, it hasn’t spoiled the other hives in the vicinity have been slow to take the syrup also.

I think they are slowing down on the building of the comb, but this could also be an optical illusion since the comb is getting bigger, I am using foundationless frames, since the comb is getting bigger I think it might not be as noticeable that it is getting bigger.

So I have read all the different things people put in the sugar water,
What are some of the things people have done to spur the bees to draw more comb?

Thank you.

[drobbins]

Donn,

I put a little wintergreen oil in my syrup.
The bee's seem to love it.
Some say it helps with both tracheal and varroa mites
And it makes their breath minty fresh  :)

Dave

[Finsky]

Most important to small nuc is that combs are full of brood. If you press comb building with syrup feeding, colony rise will be slower.

Most important thing is colony size, how much they can keep warm enough. Second is number of  feeder bees.

Now is best summer. I do not see need of feeding after 2 weeks. They get food outside. If small nuc have lack of food, I pour syrup to combs.

If they get too much honey, it will stop brood area and nuc swarms.

[Michael Bush]

I always figure the bees will draw comb when they need it.  Why do I want to try to cause it?

[bayareaartist]

I removed the feeders with the syrup at least a week ago because I noticed they were filling the cells with it and I figured they would not have room for brood. I looked in the hive last weekend and they had capped some of it but it had not expanded.
I took the syrup off because I felt there might be a swarm issue.
As to the drawing of the comb, here in san francisco the weather is different than other parts of the country. Or different parts of the city.
Where I have the hive I know still gets cool at night.

Right now at 9 am it is 62 degrees where I am at and 55 degrees where the hive is. We do not get warm until later in the year.

I am just impatient and I would like to see them build more comb so the queen has more space to lay in so the colony will grow.

Time to get a second and third colony I think.

[FordGuy]

I always figure the bees will draw comb when they need it.  Why do I want to try to cause it?

Wow, I guess I really don't understand this whole beekeeping thing then.  What I understood was that in the good old days, you could just "keep" bees and they would take care of themselves....but nowadays, you have to "manage" bees with so many dynamics affecting their behavior, from illnesses and parasites and pests that are reletively new to north american beekeepers.  

Taken to it's farthest extent, this logic would lead me to believe that we shouldn't worry about anything since the bees will make honey "when they need it"  

I'd leave this up to the individual beekeeper - if this person feels they are slow, they have eyes on their hives, we don't.  they may be comparing them to one sitting right next to it.  sorry to go on and on

[Michael Bush]

>Wow, I guess I really don't understand this whole beekeeping thing then. What I understood was that in the good old days, you could just "keep" bees and they would take care of themselves

They seem pretty capable.

>Taken to it's farthest extent

Which is usually a bad idea.

>this logic would lead me to believe that we shouldn't worry about anything since the bees will make honey "when they need it"

Yes, they will.  No amount of work on your part will cause them to make honey and short of closing up the hive so they can't get out, no amount of work on your part will stop them from making honey.

>I'd leave this up to the individual beekeeper - if this person feels they are slow, they have eyes on their hives, we don't. they may be comparing them to one sitting right next to it. sorry to go on and on

Sometimes one hive has one goal and another has a different one.  Certainly everyone can "feel" however they like.

[FordGuy]

>Wow, I guess I really don't understand this whole beekeeping thing then. What I understood was that in the good old days, you could just "keep" bees and they would take care of themselves

They seem pretty capable.

>Taken to it's farthest extent

Which is usually a bad idea.

>this logic would lead me to believe that we shouldn't worry about anything since the bees will make honey "when they need it"

Yes, they will.  No amount of work on your part will cause them to make honey and short of closing up the hive so they can't get out, no amount of work on your part will stop them from making honey.



>I'd leave this up to the individual beekeeper - if this person feels they are slow, they have eyes on their hives, we don't. they may be comparing them to one sitting right next to it. sorry to go on and on

Sometimes one hive has one goal and another has a different one.  Certainly everyone can "feel" however they like.

bayareaartist asked a valid question and you responded as if it were not.  I just think the person needed a better response than that - it is clear you are a very experienced beekeeper, just remember some of us are not.  and there seem to be some folks who believe good management - and creating ideal conditions for honey production - can increase honey yield.  How can you disagree with that?



You wrote: and short of closing up the hive so they can't get out, no amount of work on your part will stop them from making honey.

don't add a super when they need it and see how long they stay.



I'd leave this up to the individual beekeeper - if this person feels they are slow, they have eyes on their hives, we don't. they may be comparing them to one sitting right next to it. sorry to go on and on

You wrote: Sometimes one hive has one goal and another has a different one.  Certainly everyone can "feel" however they like.[/quote]

sorry - insert the word "observe" You can use symantics if you like, take my words out of context, but from my perspective as a new beekeeper, you took a perfectly valid question and made the person look like they asked a dumb question - which may be the first time I saw that in this forum where folks are normally happy to hellp new people

[leominsterbeeman]

How to get the bees to draw comb faster?

Make sure you give them something to draw with?
Paper, little Pencils and pens, but don't give them crayons!


Bbbbbaaaaahhhhhaaaaaaa!

[drobbins]

Let me throw a little newbie perspective in here.
As beginners, we are told not to expect much or any honey the first year.
Well, of course we want to achive something.
(we should just be content with a strong healthy hive)
But to a beginner it makes sense that if you feed the crap out of em they'll draw lot's of comb.
Remeber the old saying
"A beekeepers most valuable possesion is drawn comb"
It never occured to me that feeding them too much might cause them to store honey in the brood nest and take up space that should be for brood.
Those pesky rascals won't do what I tell em  :)
I can see the beginnings of that problem and I've take the syrup away from them
Thanks to the folks here who pointed out the error in my thinking.
But realize, this is a pretty easy assumption for a newbie to make.

Dave

[Joseph Clemens]

Many factors control comb building (some of them are);

1) genetics of the bees themselves

2) number of bees

3) queen vigor/health

4) available space for comb building

5) overabundance of food

6) comb space occupied by brood, pollen, or honey

7) external and internal temperatures

i.e. After allocation of bee-power resources to tend brood, patrol hive, etc. Consideration of how many bees are available to convert excess nectar/sugar into wax and then to build comb seem most important at this time especially in consideration of quantity of brood needing to be kept warm and fed, as well as space to store the incoming nectar/sugar.

From your description I would think your limiting factor is population. Once you have "many" new bees emerging to boost the population and your external temperature increases you should have more success in the comb building department.

[Finsky]

As beginners, we are told not to expect much or any honey the first year.
.

Honey is really possible, but without experience it is difficult to manage with bees. It is complicated issue.

Remeber the old saying
"A beekeepers most valuable possesion is drawn comb"

Really nonsence.  Thank's Lord. I never heard that!

I can ask: "Which is the most important part in the car: motor,  tyre, or tyre's valve?"

It never occured to me that feeding them too much might cause them to store honey in the brood nest and take up space that should be for brood.

If you stop feeding, so it happens, but if you feed, they store. I do not feed nucs. I feed swarms only first week.

I aunderstand that you feed package bees taht they build they first combs. But feed whole summer and winter too....UH!

Small hives gather normally  so much honey that there is shot of brood space. It is not normal if new nuc swarms first year. The only reason is that hive is full and queen has not emough room for eggs.


I have wroten tens of times that the most usual accident for beginners  is that he cannot antisipate how quickly hive is filled with honey and swarm escapes. So bees are gone and the yield.

If you want to help this accident, feed it!

Our yield summer in Finland is 2 months. You in south have 4, 5,  7 what ever months.  I am able to get normal honey yield when I have 5 frame hive in April.  

Rasberries started just blooming here.  First rape field are turning yellow.

[FordGuy]

.  First rape field are turning yellow.

Finsky, ok - now I'm really curious - what is a rape?  thanks.

[Finsky]

[quote="FordGuy - what is a rape?  thanks.[/quote]

It is turnip rape , is it same as canola

[bayareaartist]

rape sead oil
the name was changed to canola for obvious reasons

[Joseph Clemens]

Way off topic.

Canola = Canadian Oil?

http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/nexus/Brassica_napus_nex.html

[tig]

from my experience, some colonies just simply suck at comb building irregardless of colony strength.  i have about 150 colonies and we have taken to marking the boxes that qualify as comb builders.  but have you tried feeding a 60/40 ratio?  6 parts sugar to 4 parts water.  the heavy feed usually stimulates comb building plus of course having a lot of young nurse bees!

[Michael Bush]

>bayareaartist asked a valid question and you responded as if it were not.

It is not my intention to trivialize the question.  My intention is to point out that the answer is that it IS trival.  The bees will draw comb when they need it.  If you try to force them to do so, you will simply end up with a clogged up brood nest and a swarmy hive.  If you don't try to make them draw comb they will do so when they need to.  They will not do so when they don't need to.

>i I just think the person needed a better response than that

What response would you like?  I think you should not worry about it.  Is that an adequate response?

> - it is clear you are a very experienced beekeeper, just remember some of us are not. and there seem to be some folks who believe good management - and creating ideal conditions for honey production - can increase honey yield. How can you disagree with that?

Most "managment" is just interference and decreases honey yeild.  The few things that are useful to maximizing honey yeilds are to feed early to get a lot of brood going into a flow (without going too early and causing them to swarm), timing your splits as cut downs just before the flow instead of earlier or later when it won't maximize your yeild, and keeping the brood nest open so they don't swarm.  Feeding to try to get them to draw comb will clog the brood nest so they will be more likely to swarm.

I do not reverse boxes.  Some people think this will prevent swarming and maximize yeild.  It WILL prevent swarming mostly but it will not increase the yeild (other than the amount you would lose because they swarmed).  It forces them to rearrange the entire brood nest.

I don't feed except SOMTIMES a bit in the early spring for stimulation and when they are low on stores and I'm afraid of starvation or they are light in the fall and I'm afraid of them starving over winter.

>don't add a super when they need it and see how long they stay.

I've never had a hive abscond because I didn't feed them.  I'm not sure what you mean.  But I would CERTAINLY feed a hive that is in danger of starving.

>I'd leave this up to the individual beekeeper

Everything is up to the individual beekeeper.  But if you want my advice, I gave it.  If you don't want to follow it, it makes no difference whatsoever to me.

> if this person feels they are slow, they have eyes on their hives, we don't. they may be comparing them to one sitting right next to it.

And if that is so, maybe there is something else going on or it may just be genetics.  But if everything else looks good I am recommending not worrying about it.

>sorry - insert the word "observe" You can use symantics

I really would rather not.

> if you like, take my words out of context

That is not my intent.

> but from my perspective as a new beekeeper, you took a perfectly valid question and made the person look like they asked a dumb question

That was certainly not my intention.  My intention was to point out that new beekeepers often dwell on what they believe the bees should be doing and the bees know exactly what they should be doing.  If they need comb they will draw it.

>which may be the first time I saw that in this forum where folks are normally happy to hellp new people

If you look on www.beesource.com you'll see I have happily posted more than 14,000 times in an effert to happily help beekeepers.  My intent was to be helpful.  I am sorry that you took it in a different way.

[FordGuy]

sorry for my confusion, thanks for taking the time to clear that up...I guess I identify with the guy asking the question since I know so little about this and am trying to learn...thanks again.