Chemicals in wax

kdm · February 18, 2012, 07:59:55 AM

Any one have any info on how long foreign chemicals last in combs or wax foundation. I found some info, about contamination in wax from Jennifer Berry, Judy Wu, and Bejorn has info on foundation, but i can't find anything on the life of chemicals.

BjornBee · February 18, 2012, 09:33:00 AM

I would imagine for answering your direct question of how long they last, there is no real answer.

Chemicals become encapsulated into the wax (and bee bread), and due to the nature of the hive, (dark, no UV rays, no actual water exposure, etc.) that independent testing to answer those questions would need to be completed. The bee industry, being rather small in the budget area, will probably never get around to testing each individual chemical, or combination of chemicals.

For those who don't know, Berry went to several places known for producing and growing organic chemical free products (South America), including honey, in attempts to find uncontaminated wax for some testing. Once she had the wax back in the states and tested the supposed chemical free wax, it was found to be loaded with chemicals making the wax useless for testing. Part of that was due I am sure for not knowing the longevity of the chemicals, etc. For Berry to use the comb, years of testing to get a baseline and transfer dynamics of the chemicals would of been needed. Nobody in the bee research world has that type resources or time.

Bees have a number of ways of dealing with tainted wax and chemicals in the hive. Chemically tainted pollen and bee bread dead of beneficial enzymes, etc., is entombed. This means the cells are waxed over, never to be used again. They will also double wall or line the comb with extra wax. The wax is so thick and heavy, that it is easy to spot. Some in the past suggested bees tearing down bad comb, and that may be true for old comb and the riddance of organic matter and buildup. With chemicals, they do not rip down comb. They seal it.

The third option for the bees, involves either one of two mechanisms: 1) The hive dies and the wax is destroyed or 2) The bees leave (abscond) the unhealthy environment, and nature again destroys the wax. Wax moths, the rotation of comb, and the health benefits of starting new, is all part of the natural cycle in a beehive.

My own testing did not show transfer of chemicals from wax to the bees. But again, testing is limited and probably indicates a sliver of the possibilities. The bigger, more pressing problem, is contaminated bee bread and pollen. We will probably never know the full extent of chemical residue in wax. With new and more powerful chemicals on the market yearly, it would take years and millions to answer that question. But going off what we know about the chemical buildup and the multiplying of the lethal effect with mixed chemicals, and what nature does to solve these problems if we would allow it to happen, makes comb rotation even if justified with a couple assumptions along the way, the best solution.

If your asking about just the life of chemicals, without in the field studies, everything else would be useless. Even fluvalinate, used for years in the bee industry (to this day) has had it's lethal effect and lifespan changed a half dozen times in the last 20 years. Making any manufacturer lab testing results (You can find half life testing under controlled conditions, UV exposure, etc.), about useless. You would have to simulate in the hive environments to actually know those answers. And that will probably never be known.

SEEYA · February 18, 2012, 10:31:43 AM

Thank you!

kdm · February 18, 2012, 10:49:25 AM

Bejorn very interesting. Thanks for the food for thought. What got my interest up i sent some wax to be worked into foundation. When it came it had a very strong chemical smell. After a month or so, it lost the chemical smell and had that sweet beeswax smell.

kingbee · February 18, 2012, 07:38:40 PM

Quote from: kdm on February 18, 2012, 10:49:25 AM... i sent some wax to be worked into foundation. When it came [back] it had a very strong chemical smell. After a month or so, it lost the chemical smel...

I am sure that the process of melting, stirring, pressing, rolling, sheeting, and embossing cell patterns on foundation will cause chemicals to migrate. How much or for how long I don't know, and I doubt anyone else knows. Do remember however that every plant on Earth is locked in a life and death chemical arms race with every plant-eating insect on Earth. So not every pesticide in every beehive is a man made pesticide. Just like the majority of the pesticides we eat in our daily diet are natural plant produced pesticides like Pyrethrum and Nicotine are natural pesticides.

BjornBee · February 18, 2012, 07:39:54 PM

kdm,
Unless you are using a place I am not aware of, anytime you send in wax in exchange for foundation, you are not guaranteed to get your own wax back. Who knows what wax you got back?

When I buy wax foundation, I sometimes smell a "minty" odor. Is it essential oils or thymol? Or something in the processing of the wax? I have no clue. But I know it never smells like clean wax that is for sure.

Michael Bush · February 18, 2012, 10:46:35 PM

Dadant wax foundation has always had a distinctive perfumed smell that is definitely not beeswax but is pleasant. I always wondered what it was.

kingbee · February 19, 2012, 03:55:28 AM

Quote from: BjornBee on February 18, 2012, 07:39:54 PM... you are not guaranteed to get your own wax back. Who knows what wax you got back?...

This is a fact.

tillie · February 19, 2012, 11:05:23 AM

In Jennifer's study that Bjorn mentioned, in the end she used popsicle sticks and let the bees draw their own wax because even though she had checked with every "organic" beekeeper in Georgia (Bill Owens, Don Kuchenmeister - to mention a couple), she could not find any wax that wasn't contaminated with coumaphos (sp?) and fluvalinate as well as other poisons. She presented her results at our bee club as well as at the spring meeting of GBA last year.

Linda T in Atlanta

Jim134 · February 19, 2012, 12:54:01 PM

Quote from: tillie on February 19, 2012, 11:05:23 AM
In Jennifer's study that Bjorn mentioned, in the end she used popsicle sticks and let the bees draw their own wax because even though she had checked with every "organic" beekeeper in Georgia (Bill Owens, Don Kuchenmeister - to mention a couple), she could not find any wax that wasn't contaminated with coumaphos (sp?) and fluvalinate as well as other poisons. She presented her results at our bee club as well as at the spring meeting of GBA last year.

Linda T in Atlanta

IMHO you will no find chemical free wax in the USA.

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

kdm · February 19, 2012, 04:35:32 PM

What Bejorn said about coating wax cells to cover foreign matter, i have seen on the bottom of old brood comb,mostly drone comb,but i never gave it much thought before. Never to old to learn. I think i have read that even foundationless has chemicals,but they could have less if they are in an area with few chemicals, if thats possible. The foundation i had worked most likely was not from my wax.

kingbee · February 20, 2012, 01:30:37 AM

What about HBH? Or lemon grass oil? Or blue shop towels with menthol? Crisco...? We all dump "things" in our hives, and we consider ourselves helping them when we do. But are we? :?