top and bottom spacings on frames

[cbinstrasburg]

I am new to bee keeping and have been introduced to this by a dear friend. I have ordered several boxes of bees to be delivered in April. Being mostly retired I have lots of time and tools on my hands I am considering making my bee equipment.  I have studied several drawings and understand them. The one thing I lack understanding on is the frames. I understand the width and side spacings but the top and bottom spacings are not clear. In calculating from the box and frame drawings there is space on top and on bottom...is this normal. Shouldn't the frames be flush with the top or bottom. Can someone or more someones  :) direct me on what the norm or what should be done. I realize what ever way it is done has to be done on all to keep the bee space in the correct size.

TIA
Carl

[The Bix]

Carl,

I just measured one of my medium 10-frame Langstroth boxes and a corresponding frame.  The box and the frame came from Western Bee Supply, who I believe is the supplier for all of Dadant's woodenware.  Anyway, in this particular example, there is 1/8" of space from the top of the top bar to the top of the box and there is also 1/8" of space from the bottom of the bottom bar to the bottom of the box.  Obviously, this leaves 1/4" between layers.  I know that, "A sample of one, doth not a conclusion make", but I'm willing to bet that this is pretty standard.

-John

[Michael Bush]

There should be 1/4" at the top (a 5/8" frame rest rabbet) and 1/8" at the bottom.

[cbinstrasburg]

ok...so the thickness of the top bar would have to be 3/8" to have 1/4" on top with a 5/8" rabbit. Is this common because the drawings I have show the top bars to be 1/2" to 7/16". If this is not right where can I find a drawing that shows top bars 3/8" thick.

Carl

[Michael Bush]

The ears on most top bars are tapered and where they rest they are usually 3/8".

[cbinstrasburg]

Michael and Bix thanks for the information.
Carl

[cbinstrasburg]

Another challenging question :)   In the aspect of keeping 3/8" bee space. All measurements of Langstroth hives come from the plan from this forum and most of the others I found.

long side of box
overall width of frame @ side bars is 17 3/4"...box ID dim. is 18 3/8" difference of 5/8"...5/16" each side.

narrow side of box
10 frames x 1 3/8" is 13 3/4"...box ID  dim. is 14 3/4" difference of 1"...1/2" each side.

top frames
side bars 1 3/8"...top bar 1 1/16" difference of 5/16"

None of these differences are 3/8"

#1   Why the difference from one side to the other on the frames?   :?

#2   Do the bees move through the top bars?

Don't understand the 3/8" bee space concept here.

TIA
Carl

[Michael Bush]

A bee space is between 1/4" and 3/8".  The mean of those is 5/16".

3/8" is Maximum bee space.
1/4" is Minimum bee space.
5/16" is in the middle between maximum and minimum beespace.

[cbinstrasburg]

Thanks Michael...but why is there a one inch difference in the box ID and the total width of ten frames on the Langstroth on the drawings...that is my question.

[Michael Bush]

You have to have enough space to move a frame over to get them out.  There is always extra space on the outside edges.  If there wasn't you'd have a lot of difficulty removing the first frame.  Frames should be pushed together tightly in the center.