Virgin Queens

[funbee1]

Is there anything special to do to insure that a new queen will mate and return to the hive?

I had a queen cell hatch from a 3 year old queen. The cell was open and I saw the queen probably 1-4 days after she hatched, I looked again five days later and no eggs,no queen(5 frame nuc). So I said ok she's out on mating flight. checked back a few days later and still nothing, one more search and she is gone forever.

There were other queen cells in there that originally weren't complete. Most were torn apart by the bees. One was left. I went in today to give them a new queen and there was the new queen from the last queen cell.

I really want a queen from the genetics of that three year old queen but I'm afraid she will disappear like the first one.

Also they back filled all the empty cells as the brood hatches. I will remove a frame or two and replace with open comb so if she mates she has somewhere to lay.

Can I do anything else to help the cause? (keep out of there right)

thanks,
scott

[FRAMEshift]

Virgin queens are finicky.  I would not keep checking so often because I think it disturbs the hive and makes it more likely that the virgin will leave.  Once I see a capped queen cell, I ignore that hive for at least 3 weeks... then come back to see if there are eggs.

So my suggestion, since you want the genetics of that old queen, is to do nothing for a few weeks.

[Michael Bush]

Once I put a cell (about to emerge) in a mating nuc I don't open it for two weeks.  When I do a walk away split I don't look in the hive again for a month.

[Caelansbees]

Mr. Bush, first year keeper here.  What do you mean by "walk away split"? 

[Michael Bush]

>What do you mean by "walk away split"?

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm#walkaway

[BjornBee]

"'Don't check for a month" and "If you check, the virgin queen may leave".....Great added stuff for the upcoming book!  ;)

Based on what I see...... there are two things that keep the workers from developing their ovaries, as in getting laying workers. That being 1) the queen pheromone. and 2) Worker brood pheromone.

If I pinch a queen today, or made up a mating nuc, and no queen gets established, in 21 days all the worker brood will hatch. You then have about a 10-12 day window after that until workers start developing their ovaries and you will have laying workers. So once a normal queenright colony is made queenless, you have about 31 days till you will start to have problems with laying workers. I find waiting 30 days (a month) to find out you have no queen, about senseless.

When I place a queen cell, I know what day or two she should hatch. I can tell by the opening whether she successfully hatched, or was side killed. I do not need to find the queen and it takes about 30 seconds to open the mating nuc, check the placed cell, and determine if she hatched. And I don't find that my "queen leaving" rate, however you want to call that, is any higher by checking the hive.

I check again during the time that the brood in hatching. I want to know by the time all the brood hatches, if I will have a good queen or not. As the brood hatched, the bees will back fill the brood frames. As the queen mates and begins getting ready to start laying, the bees will open up this area. Seeing a "dry" area in the middle of the brood frames is a telltale sign that a queen is present and will soon start laying. I don't need to see the queen for that.

Queens flying 5-6 miles to mate, seeing bees chewing holes through boxes fast enough to confirm this activity by eyesight, and waiting a month or more to check on a queen.

Ok...what's next?  :roll:

Disclaimer......"All beekeeping is local". Please keep this in mind. What works for one beekeeper may or may not work for the next. There are no wrong beekeepers. Just as in sports, where no score is kept, there are no winner or losers, and no right or wrong way of doing something. How could I know if someone has bees able to go 60- 90 or perhaps 6 months before workers start laying eggs. My experience and any passed along knowledge is based upon my own observations. Take it with a grain of salt, a pinch of sarcasm, and a whole heap of something else.  :-D