cant find her

tryintolearn · April 23, 2013, 09:19:27 AM

split a two deep hive and added queen to the one who definitely had no queen. the reason i say that is waited a 5 days and went back in and saw the one hive had eggs and the other had none.

so i looked for her 4 times in same day to no avail. had a fellow beeker come over the last try and he couldn't find her as well.

whats the best way to do find her? i was thinking of placing it on top of another empty hive body with some foundation frames just a few of them, and on top of that putting an excluder then placing the hive on top of all of that...would it be wise to use fume pad to drive them all down leaving queen alone?
would this work?

Georgia Boy · April 23, 2013, 09:29:55 AM

I am so new it is not even funny. Today is day three so I have to seeif the queen has been released. Since I don't think she was marked I probably won't be able to spot her . Most guys on here say to take pictures of the frames so you can use your computer to look at the pictures and find her that way. That's my plan.

Hope this helps and you find her.

Good luck.

David

tryintolearn · April 23, 2013, 09:32:51 AM

yes i heard that too... a friends wife takes pics with her cell phone and it works for them.

shes not marked either.

10framer · April 23, 2013, 09:56:48 AM

if you have eggs she's most likely there. unless you're planning on replacing her i wouldn't worry about finding her.
i split a hive and actually moved the queen into a 5 frame medium nuc and have been unable to find her a couple of times. some queens tend to run, some get between the comb and the frame if there is a spot they can do that.

D Coates · April 23, 2013, 09:58:42 AM

Why do you need to find her? If you see eggs, she's there. If you don't see eggs and you want to see if she's in there, put a frame in the hive that has eggs and if there's no queen they'll make queens out of them in a few days (you'll see the Q cells). A queenless hive has a roar to them and they are either very runny and continually fanning or lethargic and fanning.

As you get more experience you'll learn to spot her and sometimes even with experience you won't find her.

tefer2 · April 23, 2013, 09:59:00 AM

I think all of us experience this problem when first starting out.
I was advised to make up a 5 frame nuc with a queen.
Next, get in there once a week and find her.
You need to be careful that you don't roll any bees when removing or replacing frames.
Always remove an outside frame to give yourself room to slide them apart.
After a few weeks, you train your eyes to pick up her movements.
I also try to look at the frame as a whole picture rather than looking at each individual bee.
You will be a pro in no time.

Finski · April 23, 2013, 10:30:17 AM

.
Final way to find "her" is

- put an excluder againts the entrance
- shake all bees in front of the hive onto ground

First, give to the hive a frame of brood. If they have no queen there, they start to make queen cells.

tefer2 · April 23, 2013, 11:22:15 PM

I was told the best way to find her, place another mated queen in a cage on the top bars.
Close the top and wait 10 minutes, she will smell the other queen and come looking to fight. :idunno:

tryintolearn · April 24, 2013, 01:24:00 PM

actually i want to replace her. this hive is the hardest to inspect in my yard. they are nasssssty mean.

Kathyp · April 24, 2013, 01:42:44 PM

it's hard when you are new and nervous.

a few thing that might help.
1st, are you using smoke when you check this hive? a defensive hive is not a bad thing..for them, so be very sure that you want to replace what is otherwise a good queen.

take an empty box out and set it beside the one you are checking. take one frame at a time and check it. put it into the empty box as you are sure she's not on there. a little puff of smoke can help break up clumps.
look for the behavior of the bees to be different on the frame that holds her, and usually the frame on either side. they will be calmer (usually) and slower.
look for her on the frame that has the newest eggs and larvae. a frame with eggs and empty cells is a great candidate.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrPCmBwkDzQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8aXmH7iYZgU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2vdtPv--io

3rd one is shortest, but maybe best for showing behavior of bees around the queen. when you have seen it a couple of times, it will jump out at you when you check frames.
i'm sure you can find more and maybe someone has one better?

tefer2 · April 24, 2013, 07:34:09 PM

That's some good video Kathy.

Nonprophet · April 24, 2013, 11:01:05 PM

Thanks for the videos! I paid the extra $1 to get my queen marked--has made it pretty easy to find her. I was wondering--how long can you expect the marking paint to stay on the queen?

NP

RHBee · April 24, 2013, 11:28:03 PM

When all else fails the only way I can find a queen is by population reduction. Split and wait until they calm down a little bit then inspect. Small population makes fewer bees in your face and easier for me to find her. Hope this helps.

BeeMaster2 · April 25, 2013, 12:12:54 AM

All this concern with finding the queen may be causing problems like aggressive bees and can cause the bees to ball the queen. When I inspect a hive, I look until I find eggs or maybe even day old larva. This past weekend, I pulled frame number 10 in the brood box and found eggs and new larva. I pulled that frame to put it in a queenless hive and didn't have to go any further in that hive because I knew it was queen right.
Jim

capt44 · April 25, 2013, 12:57:37 AM

A queen will run, hide and use every other tactic it can think of.
I usually take the top off and give them a little smoke.
Facing the side of the hive I take out the second frame and set it aside after examining it.
I then go to the opposite side and take out the second to the last frame and examine it.
I then start at the number 3 frame and work outward.
On a frame with a lot of bees you can actually see a trail the queen leaves, it's not much but it is there.
Look on the foundation at bee's in a circle or star formation looking inward.
You can find her sneaking around.
A lot of times there will be bees on top of her, hiding her.
She will run around the edge to the opposite side a lot of times.
Then sometimes she'll go to the side of the box off the foundations.
But if you see single eggs in the cells and larva then she's there.
When you do find her MARK HER and she'll really show up, especially with this years color RED.
Good Luck.

Michael Bush · April 25, 2013, 11:51:10 AM

Queen spotting:
http://www.bushfarms.com/beesqueenspotting.htm

tryintolearn · April 29, 2013, 01:30:02 PM

i used the fume pad and drove many bees to bottom and there she was...

the reason she was so hard to find was that most of the bees in this hive run like crazy when im in there and yes i do use smoke ...and normally i dont have any problem finding a queen

but any way i did finally get to see her...and after all of this i decided to keep her...she really lays a good full pattern

Kathyp · April 29, 2013, 01:34:11 PM

you may be over smoking them. sometimes to much is as bad as none ;)

glad you found her. i'm with the others in the don't bother camp. as long as the pattern is good and there are eggs, i'm happy.

dfizer · April 29, 2013, 03:03:09 PM

Quote from: Nonprophet on April 24, 2013, 11:01:05 PM
Thanks for the videos! I paid the extra $1 to get my queen marked--has made it pretty easy to find her. I was wondering--how long can you expect the marking paint to stay on the queen?

NP

Lol - I must have gotten cheated - i was charged $3 for the queen I purchased to be marked and to be honest I would have paid 3 times that amount. It's the best $3 I have ever spent!

David