Switching from 10 frame full depths..to what ?

[kalium]

Hi all,

So I've got a new (old) table saw, and want to build up my wooden ware this winter. So I think it's time
to decide on what standard I should pick. I currently only have a couple of hives, so I'm not really invested at
the moment.

The reason why I'm not sticking with 10 frame full depths; too heavy. Just too heavy. I'm young, but my back is not
in great shape. I will be wanting to move the hives around as well.

Eventually I'd like to be able to offer nucs etc to other bee keepers, and not having full depths kind of
makes you the odd guy out I'm guessing.

I'm not sure about 8 frame hives, just because of the economics. The work in making one is the same,
the amount of timber is pretty much the same, but you get two frames less! I guess I could come to
terms with that. 10 frames is nice though as it is easy to get everything in 10 frames (excluders,
propolis mats, pollen traps etc etc).

Anyway, I'm  currently thinking of either 10 frame manley's, or 8 frame full depths. I saw a previous thread
about WSP, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as they would probably still be too
heavy in 10 frame format.

Anyone want to give me their 2 cents ?

Cheers.

[Jim134]

Hi all,

So I've got a new (old) table saw, and want to build up my wooden ware this winter. So I think it's time
to decide on what standard I should pick. I currently only have a couple of hives, so I'm not really invested at
the moment.

The reason why I'm not sticking with 10 frame full depths; too heavy. Just too heavy. I'm young, but my back is not
in great shape. I will be wanting to move the hives around as well.

Eventually I'd like to be able to offer nucs etc to other bee keepers, and not having full depths kind of
makes you the odd guy out I'm guessing.

I'm not sure about 8 frame hives, just because of the economics. The work in making one is the same,
the amount of timber is pretty much the same, but you get two frames less! I guess I could come to
terms with that. 10 frames is nice though as it is easy to get everything in 10 frames (excluders,
propolis mats, pollen traps etc etc).

Anyway, I'm  currently thinking of either 10 frame manley's, or 8 frame full depths. I saw a previous thread
about WSP, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as they would probably still be too
heavy in 10 frame format.

Anyone want to give me their 2 cents ?

Cheers.

   Is this a standard hive size in Australia ???
   What is WSP ???



                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
   

[kalium]

   Is this a standard hive size in Australia ???
   What is WSP ???



                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
   

WSP is a ~192mm height hive. A Manley is more or less the same as your 'Medium'.

[kanga]

   Is this a standard hive size in Australia ???
   What is WSP ???



                  BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
   
[/quote]
Jim these are the standard hive sizes in Australia

Full Depth     9 9/16"   241mm approx.
W.S.P.      7 5/8"   195mm approx.
Manley     6 5/8"   169mm approx.
Ideal             5 3/4"   144mm approx.
Half Depth     4 3/4"   120mm approx.

Approx. 95% of beekeepers would use the Full Depth in either 10 frame or 8 frame.

Kev

[BeeMaster2]

Since you are asking:
If I was starting out, I would definitely start with 8 frame medium brood and super boxes. I now have almost all mediums but they are all 10 frame hives.

[Jim134]

  Is this a standard hive size in Australia ???
  What is WSP ???



                 BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)
   

Jim these are the standard hive sizes in Australia

Full Depth     9 9/16"   241mm approx.
W.S.P.      7 5/8"   195mm approx.
Manley     6 5/8"   169mm approx.
Ideal             5 3/4"   144mm approx.
Half Depth     4 3/4"   120mm approx.

Approx. 95% of beekeepers would use the Full Depth in either 10 frame or 8 frame.

Kev

[/quote]

  In the USA you can get the same heights as you have posted one bad thing for me is if you go with all 8 frame equipment your hive will be taller then with 10 frame equipment for the brood nest.



             BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

[BlueBee]

For reasons I don't really know, my bees make more bees on bigger combs.  If deeps are the standard over there and your goal is to sell bees, then I would probably go with 8 frame deeps for brood and maybe mediums/manley's if you're going to do any honey.  Even 8 frame deeps filled with honey is a load on the back. :( 

In the USA the forums seem to have convinced a lot of folks to go with all mediums/manley's and it's usually the hobbists that kill off the bees and need more every year.  Hence around here it might make sense to offer both deeps and medium nucs for sale if that's your business plan.

I've been asked leasing hives around town to the gardening types.  There's already another beek in my area that does that.  I would definitely go with 8 frames for that kind of business due to weight concerns and because I don't really want the bees to grow into mega hives in that situation.     

[amun-ra]

Normal deep brood box and then half heights for honey supers you can fit two halfs in your extractor baskets so it works for me.I also use them for foundationless frames for honeycomb as they hold up well without wires but can be extracted if you need the honey.I like em anyway!

[Simon]

Where do you get half height gear from in Australia?  I have never seen half height stuff advertised around here, but maybe there are Queensland manufacturers that make that size.  Full depth and ideal sizes are pretty popular and just about every beekeeping equipment supplier stocks them, so it's easier if you want to make your own boxes etc, but buy readily available frames.  Australian "ideal" boxes is similar to US shallow boxes I think. 

Anyway I would go with either an 8-frame full depth brood box with ideal supers or just all 8-frame ideals.  That's what a lot of beekeepers in Tasmania use, but I understand that there are some variations in preferred box sizes between states.  The guys at Australian Honey Sales (Qld/Tas) have recently spent a lot of time cutting down their WSP gear to ideals, due to the weight considerations and standardising equipment.  There's nothing stopping you from using all 10-frame ideals either if that's what you want and they are certainly lighter than 8 or 10-frame full depth stuff.  We used to use 10-frame full depth and 10-frame ideal boxes, but even a full 10-frame ideal is pretty heavy, so I have cut down all my old stuff to 8-frames.  The more boxes you have to lift each day will make you think that each box you lift is heavier than the last one - not much fun with a bad back.  Well, that's my 2 cents worth, hope it helps.

Simon

[kalium]

Anyway I would go with either an 8-frame full depth brood box with ideal supers or just all 8-frame ideals.  That's what a lot of beekeepers in Tasmania use, but I understand that there are some variations in preferred box sizes between states. 

Simon,

I've never really heard of people going with all ideals (that's not saying much though). It makes sense in that they would be pretty light and movable.
I do have access to 290x19 timber as well (split down the length and you've got roughly the height on an ideal)

It sounds like a pretty good idea actually, except for the added labour of putting twice as many boxes and frames together. I might be able to get
used to that though.

[kalium]

Someone else suggested going to ideals as well.

So over the weekend I bought several metres of 292mm board and cut them down the middle to make ideal boxes.

Looking forward to easier lifting!

[rawfind]

Hi all,


The reason why I'm not sticking with 10 frame full depths; too heavy. Just too heavy. I'm young, but my back is not
in great shape. I will be wanting to move the hives around as well.


I'm
Anyway, I'm  currently thinking of either 10 frame manley's, or 8 frame full depths. I saw a previous thread
about WSP, but that doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me as they would probably still be too
heavy in 10 frame format.

Anyone want to give me their 2 cents ?

Cheers.

I use 8 frames believe me even they are too heavy when full of honey, what i started doing is using 2 boxes when
harvesting honey, i put 4 frames in one box then lift it up on the ute (covered of course) then the other 4 in another box,
which i transfer 1 by 1 to the box on the ute away from the bees of course, a bit more stuffing around but a hell of a lot easier
on my back (which is good and i want it to stay that way) hope that gives you some ideas.

[Lone]

Hello Kalium,

It's probably fine if you make all your own gear, but that 19mm pine is really a bother trying to get it to fit with standard sizes.  We can only get 19mm here also, so after mucking around for a while with ill-fitting hives, we succumbed to buying them and just making bottom boards and lids. That 3 or 4 mm makes a difference. It is also difficult having the ends of the hive so thin because of the rabbets for the frames, without much room for error when putting the lid on. You are doubtless a much better carpenter so it will probably be fine.

Speaking of bottom boards, I had some marine ply left over from another job this week, and does that make straight bottom boards!  I've never been game to leave the bottom boards loose and not screwed onto the box till now, because of the usual warp in regular ply.  But I must say, the 4 bottom boards I made are near enough to perfect  :)

Lone

[amun-ra]

lone I have your trolly will bring it to the next meeting

[Lone]

Thanks! I wondered where that was.  I've had to lug my banjo around everywhere.  I can't come to the next meeting but I'll let you know when I'm in town.

Great meeting at your place, probably the best ever excluding the ones here.  The whole city wanted to check out your bees.

Lone

[amun-ra]

Let us know when your in town I can leave the trolly at the gate.
I sold the nuke that was on the power box put it on gumtree saturday for $130.00 and people came round on sunday morning with the money and picked up monday night so I'm down to 6 hives now in the yard.
Back to the thread half heights are the go.