Few First Time Questions

PhilK · November 14, 2015, 08:05:39 AM

G'day,

I posted this in Down Under Beekeeping but thought I'd try here as haven't heard anything back. My housemate and i just received two nucs - they outgrew their nuc boxes so are in 10 frame boxes awaiting us to transfer them into our boxes. Waking up to two hives in the yard is pretty exciting. I just have a few questions that have been crossing my mind recently, so any help is really appreciated!

1. Positioning - the guy who delivered them was nice enough to adjust the positioning so they face north-northeast, but one of the hives is still in shade when the sun comes up (it'll end up getting sun probably around noon or so). Should we move them so they both get sun?

2. They're on a bit of a slope, does that matter?

3. If they got delivered last night, how long should we wait before transferring them into our own boxes?

4. How often should we be checking them after transferring them to see if they're going OK? Weekly?

5. When will we know it is time to put a super on? I assume when we see they are full?

6. They are in our yard, and there's a guy who mows our lawn from time to time. I read somewhere bees will attack you for mowing etc around their hives - for those of you with hives in your yard, how do you mow your grass?

Sorry for all the questions - I have done a lot of reading but it's good to get some confirmation from other beeks too!

Cheers
Philk

Maggiesdad · November 14, 2015, 12:49:11 PM

Hey I'm a newbie too, so forewarned is forearmed!

Quote from: PhilK on November 14, 2015, 08:05:39 AM
G'day,

I posted this in Down Under Beekeeping but thought I'd try here as haven't heard anything back. My housemate and i just received two nucs - they outgrew their nuc boxes so are in 10 frame boxes awaiting us to transfer them into our boxes. Waking up to two hives in the yard is pretty exciting. I just have a few questions that have been crossing my mind recently, so any help is really appreciated!

1. Positioning - the guy who delivered them was nice enough to adjust the positioning so they face north-northeast, but one of the hives is still in shade when the sun comes up (it'll end up getting sun probably around noon or so). Should we move them so they both get sun? Sun is good. The sooner they can fly the sooner they can get to work, and they know how to cool the hive when it gets warm.

2. They're on a bit of a slope, does that matter? No, just have your boxes level if you're working foundationless.

3. If they got delivered last night, how long should we wait before transferring them into our own boxes? The sooner they get settled, in the better.

4. How often should we be checking them after transferring them to see if they're going OK? Weekly? Two weeks is probably ok, watch the landing boards daily if you can.

5. When will we know it is time to put a super on? I assume when we see they are full? Next box goes on when the last box is 70% drawn.

6. They are in our yard, and there's a guy who mows our lawn from time to time. I read somewhere bees will attack you for mowing etc around their hives - for those of you with hives in your yard, how do you mow your grass? Never throw the clippings to the hive. The colony behavior will vary throughout the season - some days you can mow right up next to the hive box, next week they may all line up on the landing board and come after you. I cant afford to get stung, so I use a string trimmer while in a full suit.

Sorry for all the questions - I have done a lot of reading but it's good to get some confirmation from other beeks too!

Cheers
Philk

sc-bee · November 14, 2015, 05:30:51 PM

Ditto except #4 ---- A weekly inspection will not hurt IMHO .In particular for a newbee learning. magdad did you wait two weeks as a newbee

Always pull an outside frame first, better odds the queen is not there. And sit that one frame to the side after inspecting. This gives you more room and helps preventing not to rolling the queen after the box is full.

PhilK · November 14, 2015, 11:10:40 PM

Thanks for the replies, I really appreciate it!

We have just transferred them into their new boxes. Unable to find the queen in either hive, but figured we just don't have the eye for it yet!

One hive is noticeably weaker. Much fewer bees around the entrance etc, and in the 10 frame box about 3 frames of foundation were totally empty.

The other hive is packed full of bees, and some comb was connecting a few frames. Only one frame of foundation was about half drawn on one side and empty on the other. The others were all pretty well drawn... time for a super already?

Cheers
Phil

GSF · November 15, 2015, 06:53:04 AM

Pull a frame of brood from the robust hive, put it in the middle of the weaker hive, then pull an empty frame and put it on the outside of the brood nest. Make very sure the queen isn't on there. Often when I do this I find the queen first then pull another frame.

sc-bee · November 15, 2015, 09:03:03 AM

If one continues to lag behind the other... switch positions. #1 hive to position #2 and #2 hive to position #1. Doing this during a flow of some kind is usually better. Nucs are often not equal in strength and drawn comb etc. Bee drift if nucs are put together just before purchase. Give them a little time to catch up before you play with frames IMHO...

Maggiesdad · November 15, 2015, 10:15:33 AM

Quote from: sc-bee on November 14, 2015, 05:30:51 PM
Ditto except #4 ---- A weekly inspection will not hurt IMHO .In particular for a newbee learning. magdad did you wait two weeks as a newbee

Ummm... no!

But I do believe my frequent inspections (and ignorance of proper management protocols) of my two Langstroths hindered their progress. I wasn't going to cloud the issue with Top Bar Hives, but here I go!... Having three TBHs, then three additional TBH nucs, allowed me to be in the various boxes on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays

. And what I learned about the structure and makeup of the broodnest in those six boxes I feel will pay off handsomely in the management of my two Langstroths next season (should they make it through the winter).

hjon71 · November 15, 2015, 10:46:06 AM

1.
Where I am, Bees in the wild typically live in a forest. Shade won't hurt them but early sun will get them flying sooner. Which might increase honey production. For me, 3 things matter most in positioning:
Relation of entrance to sunrise and wind. Sun in the entrance-Good
Heavy or cold wind in the entrance-Not so Good
Ease of Access. I keep my hives where I can reach/work them without adding extra effort. But out of the way of regular activities.
Consideration of others. That could mean neighbors or the mower guy. If possible, position the entrance away from normal human traffic.

2.
Just keep the hive level or slightly tilted forward. Slope of the ground doesn't matter.

3.
As soon as you want.

4.
It won't hurt to check every 7 days, but I would only check until I saw eggs/larva. Then I'd stay out unless something changed in activity at the entrance.

5.
I prefer waiting to 90% full at least. I think crowded bees are healthy bees. Empty space means room for pests.

6.
I'd place them so they were in an area that doesn't require regular mowing or use something under the hives to prevent grass/weeds like a big chunk of old carpet, gravel, or mulch. Some people even pour concrete slabs. I suit up when I mow/trim near bees. Better safe than sorry.

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PhilK · November 15, 2015, 10:31:53 PM

Quote from: sc-bee on November 15, 2015, 09:03:03 AM
If one continues to lag behind the other... switch positions. #1 hive to position #2 and #2 hive to position #1. Doing this during a flow of some kind is usually better. Nucs are often not equal in strength and drawn comb etc. Bee drift if nucs are put together just before purchase. Give them a little time to catch up before you play with frames IMHO...

Is the idea of switching them to have the strong hive bees come back and start living in the weak hive? I thought bees would try and keep 'strangers' out of their hives?

Thanks for the ideas everyone! If putting a frame of brood from the strong into the weak, do I leave the covering of bees on it, or shake them all off?

sc-bee · November 15, 2015, 11:14:01 PM

Yes that is the idea in switching locations. Foragers bringing in nectar during a flow helps the entry and no issues. I see you are in Aus and season is opposite ours. So thinking you may be in a flow. As far as adding a frame another hive will accept nurse bees but I still like to shake the bees and add just the brood. That way I do not miss a queen. Just me...

PhilK · November 15, 2015, 11:46:40 PM

Thanks for the advice. Bit worried about the weakness of the hive combined with the hive beetles we saw, so might change their location AND give them a frame of brood.

Somebody PM'd me on here suggesting I take the empty foundation out and put a division board in to give them a smaller area to defend, so that sounds like a good idea too but won't be able to do that until Thursday.

Yes it is summer here so getting days aroudn 25-30 C

Eric Bosworth · November 16, 2015, 12:35:23 PM

Quote from: hjon71 on November 15, 2015, 10:46:06 AM

I prefer waiting to 90% full at least. I think crowded bees are healthy bees. Empty space means room for pests.

I totally agree. Michael Bush has a post about empty space that is very good. He equates bees having too much room to people having a huge house with an excessive mortgage payment. Giving the bees just enough room is the best approach. That is one nice thing about top bar hives. You can just slide the divider and only add a couple bars at a time.

sc-bee · November 16, 2015, 05:54:16 PM

SHB are relative to how many. I see shb on every entry and expect to0. If to many yes condense them down so the shb can not hide in the space.
As far as waiting until 90%. if you do , find your tallest ladder, a bucket with a long pole in addition to the ladder and get ready to fish them out of the trees IMHO.... Bees without room in prime season swarm. And quickly...don't get behind.

PhilK · November 16, 2015, 11:36:15 PM

Thanks for the feedback!

Opened the hives this morning. Weak hive feels about half the weight of the stronger when picking the hives up.

Weak hive had 3 frames on the far right as plain foundation, no bees on them, and no comb being drawn. I removed them, made a space next to the brood cluster and inserted three frames of brood (with honeystores and bee coverage) from the strong hive in. Visualised the queen from the strong hive and made sure her frame didn't leave the hive. The three frames of foundation I placed into the strong hive - they should have no problem filling them judging by the way they have been going.

The weak hive's Beetle Jail had no beetles in it, but some beetles were hiding around the Apithor trap so hopefully some have gone inside too.

We also moved the hives onto taller hive stands and angled them forward a bit to help drainage out the front, as well as moving them so they both receive full morning sun.

I will give them a week or so before rechecking them to make sure they settle. Hopefully this will help as I'd hate to lose a hive this early on. There seems to be a lot more activity outside the weak hive soon after closing them back up again (this may have been bees from the strong hive returning to what they thought was their hive, as we'd moved their positions)