Hazards of doing a cutout "at home"

KeyLargoBees · January 15, 2016, 12:28:00 PM

I have an Owl Box full of bees that the homeowner wants gone but she doesn't want the cutout done on her site for some reason. Removal from the tree is a matter of a few screws so I was going to cover entrances with some window screen and take it down and transport after dark....

Only inherant danger I see (other than dropping the box as I carry it down th eladder) is this is supposedly a 2 year old hive so I expect a considerable amount of comb honey and if this is as messy as I fear it might be I am afraid of triggering a robbing frenzy in my home yard.....not a true "flow" going on now but I am still seeing nectar stores increasing in my home hives so we are not in any sort of dearth so not sure if robbing would even be an issue.

Just wanted to get some others opinions if anyone has performed similar "surgery" close to home.

iddee · January 15, 2016, 12:51:39 PM

I would take it home and set it in the yard until March. Then do the cutout.

Colobee · January 15, 2016, 01:58:31 PM

My thoughts too - adjusted to the south Florida season. With a "portable" box it might be worth trying to entice them up into new brood box, with just a hole in the "roof" of the old box. Maybe secure that box with some cord or a rope, looped over a limb, to help lower it?

Good luck!

little john · January 15, 2016, 03:33:15 PM

Quote from: iddee on January 15, 2016, 12:51:39 PM
I would take it home and set it in the yard until March. Then do the cutout.

So would I - simply relocate the owl box over to your place, then do a more relaxed cut-out on a nice day, whenever a genuine flow starts. Then return the box.

Window screen and a few drawing pins (thumb tacks) - sounds like a good method.

So - got yourself another colony - nice one ...

LJ

KeyLargoBees · January 15, 2016, 04:54:45 PM

Not sure it can wait until March with as cram packed as these girls are... they could swarm any day so the sooner the better.

I checked them this afternoon in the rain and they have a beard on the front of the hive that looks like its July or august. The light was horrible so I couldnt get a picture.

With the warm winter we are having i expect some flow to start early February so I can wait a few weeks . I am starting to see blossom spikes on the sea grape and some other flowering trees so it looks like we are several weeks ahead of normal.

And Yes LJ....its a nice survivor feral colony...I had my face up close peering in the entrance today....in the rain...and they ignored me like good little girls....who knows with as packed as they are they may throw a swarm before I cut them out and I could get a 2fer LOL.

little john · January 15, 2016, 08:07:02 PM

Quote from: KeyLargoBees on January 15, 2016, 04:54:45 PM
Not sure it can wait until March with as cram packed as these girls are... they could swarm any day so the sooner the better.

I checked them this afternoon in the rain and they have a beard on the front of the hive that looks like its July or august.

Oh right, well in view of that info - suggest you move them asap to your locale, and then set up a modified Hogan Bee Trap: http://honey-sun.com/tech-tools/hogans-bee-trap/

Normally with the Hogan Trap the idea is to entice the queen into the box via a wire cone 'one way valve', then spirit her and her entourage away. In your case, you could dispense with the cone valve, and simply let the colony build-up inside a standard box connected to the owl box, in what would effectively become an extension to their existing nest, in order to give them more space and hopefully prevent swarming. Then, if successful, you could then do your owl-box cutout later, without being under pressure.

It certainly sounds as if you have a good situation there !

LJ

Acebird · January 15, 2016, 09:22:52 PM

I believe the Hogan trap involves installing brood which is a lure for the queen. Once the queen is trapped in your box the others will follow.

iddee · January 15, 2016, 09:36:58 PM

Change "march" to the first 60 degrees days after drones are seen. If that's now, then do it now. I don't think they will swarm before there are drones available.

KeyLargoBees · January 15, 2016, 10:32:53 PM

There aren't many drones in any of my other hives.....they didn't boot them all but there are very few. Get this....Monday night will be the "coldest night" of the 2015/16 winter so far and the low is forecast to be 57 :-) So that 60 degree rule doesnt apply down here ;-)

Not going to rush this and the lack of drones thing I hadn't thought about so until i see them building I am probably going to leave them as is and just move em....then pick a nice sunny day to do the cutout. The weather we have had for the past week has sucked with fast moving rain showers one minute and then 45 minutes of sun and more rain...really unsettled and no way do I want to be deconstructing this hive and have one of those rain storms move through.

Thanks for the insight....and advice.

BeeMaster2 · January 16, 2016, 07:07:09 AM

KLB,
I had a similar situations to yours. One was a squirrel box. Bees swarmed in and moved the squirrels out and a tool box full of bees that had been there many many years. Both cases, I brought them home and let them sit until I had a good flow. I would wait until you see the bees are on a flow. If you have a bee vac, vacuum up the beard and add them to a weak hive. Or just brush them into a box and drop them in the weak hive. Being as you are moving them, they will not know where there old home is. I would not try the cut out in your apiary with out a flow. The robbing will get out of control real quick. With a good flow, you would think that you were miles away from any hive.
Jim

little john · January 16, 2016, 07:20:16 AM

Quote from: Acebird on January 15, 2016, 09:22:52 PM
I believe the Hogan trap involves installing brood which is a lure for the queen. Once the queen is trapped in your box the others will follow.

It's a flexible system, and how it's used depends on what the objectives are.

With the cone in place, any bee entering the outer chamber is trapped there, whilst conditions in the inner chamber will begin to slide downhill. If the queen doesn't come out she's doomed, as are any remaining brood should the interior food supply become exhausted.

But - with the 'one-way' cone removed the attached box becomes an extension to the existing nest, and life may proceed with the nest so divided.

Cleo makes the point that - if the object of using the trap is to 'crop bees' (rather than extract the colony) - then it is imperative that the queen be returned to the original nest, and not removed by accident.

All-in-all, a very clever and flexible system - and one which Cleo is happy to discuss the use of, if you drop him an email. He's a very helpful and all-round nice guy.

LJ

jredburn · January 17, 2016, 08:19:28 PM

Take the box to a field or park, away from people and other bees, do the cutout, take the bees to your yard, and return the box.

Acebird · January 17, 2016, 08:28:23 PM

Something tells me you would lose some bees doing what you suggest but the overall plan looks good to me.

BeeMaster2 · January 18, 2016, 01:59:02 PM

If you remove the old hive and leave the new hive there until sundown you will minimize the number of bees that you loose. Bee sure you do it more than a mile from your apiary. All it takes is one bee to find your location and the robbing will commence.