Newbie Panic - I think my package is going to swarm

[CrazyTalk]

Background:
I'm running a long langstroth style hive - my initial goal was to keep a top bar, but I was worried about them building perpendicular comb, so I built to langstroth dimensions and gave them a bunch of  rite-cell frames to get them started straight with the eventual goal of adding top bars in.

Current setup is (left to right) 1 top bar, 9 rite cell frames, 2 more top bars, and then a follower board. There's a hole in the follower board leading to a feeder.

Package was added on 4/5

Current situation
I've been giving the bees constant access to 1:1 syrup since I put them in the hive - weather has been really wet generally, and they've been taking a lot of syrup - they pretty much stopped last week though - no syrup consumed between 4/29 and 5/6. Yesterday I noticed them flying out of the hive, and then back up underneath the cover - I figured they were just shortcutting to the feeder, but wanted to make sure they weren't building comb somewhere they weren't supposed to - so I inspected today. The sugar was empty - they'd gone through a gallon in the last 6 days.

I didn't get to finish my inspection because it started pouring, but started on the right side and got through about 2/3 of the hive - there's nothing on the first 2 top bars, the 1st frame is empty on the right side, but built up on the left side - there were eggs in this frame, but not a ton of bees on it (do eggs need to be totally covered?). Everything inwards that I checked is fully built out and covered in bees. I didn't get a chance to check the last 3 frames or so and the final topbar.

On the 3rd to last frame I checked I found a queen cell about halfway up the frame - it was open- but I didn't check whether it had larvae in it. On the next frame there were 4 fully built out queen cells on the bottom of the frame - 2 of them capped. I looked in one of the other two and thought I saw a plump larvae (was rushing though) - on the next frame there was an open queen cell about halfway up - I didn't get to check the other side of that frame, as that's when the sky opened up.

I brought a couple of frames out with me, and added 3 staggered in the middle of the hive - but is it already too late at this point? Do I need to get another box built tonight and split them tomorrow? Is it possible this is a supercedure event or I accidentally crushed her and not a swarm? I thought I still had time with the final topbars and last frame not fully built out - but maybe they don't see it that way.

I haven't actually seen the queen since I dumped the package/uncaged her - any tips on finding her if I do need to split? Shes not marked.

[cao]

Typically the queen swarms when the queen cells are capped.  In your situation I would guess that the gorged one your gallon of sugar water and left a day or two ago.  Or they are getting ready to leave since you said that there was eggs.  Regardless of whether or not they have swarmed, with that many queen cells you have a great opportunity to split provided there are enough bees.  If you can find the queen(if she is still there) move her and a few frames of bees and let the original hive raise a new queen with those queen cells.  If you can't find the queen I would make a split with some of the queen cells.  Leave at least one in the original hive in case they have already swarmed.

I built a long hive this past winter.  Going to put bees in it in a week or so.  My understanding is that they can get honey/nectar bound pretty quick if you don't keep adding empty frames in the middle of the brood nest. 

[KeyLargoBees]

Ummm 4/5 to 5/10 ish is about time you would see orientation flights from first batch of brood (considering initial comb building time and then laying hatching and a week for nurse bees to flex their wings.........bet these flights happens about the same time every afternoon :-)....would be really odd to have a package swarm after a month.

[CrazyTalk]

Its not any flights I'm concerned about - its all the queen cells (and they're fully built out - not just cups- and a couple are capped). I think I've got 8-9 frames worth of bees at this point and a lot of brood - they've built up really quickly.

I think the problem is probably that I can't really tell the difference between capped honey and capped brood - its all dark looking because of the rite cell (which makes it really easy to see eggs) - I assumed I wouldn't have to add frames until they had filled out all the ones already in there, but I think maybe they've backfilled the brood nest with syrup, and the queen has nowhere to lay.

[bwallace23350]

I am always afraid mine will swarm also. Someone told me to have an extra box ready so if they do swarm you can have a new hive. So perhaps there is hope in it.

[Acebird]

If this is your only hive it is going to be iffy for resources needed for splits but what do you have to lose.  Honey is heavy, brood in not.  If you pick up the frame there is no question which is which.

[CrazyTalk]

I happened to have built a nuc box (that I was intending to use as a swarm trap) about 2 weeks ago Gonna have to build another hive box.

I got in again this morning and the two queen cells on the bottom of frame 8 (or so) that weren't capped are now capped - I also found another one that was fully built out and not capped. Frame 10 (that I hadn't got to yesterday) had a couple more queen cells, and they'd built a noticeable amount of comb on the (foundationless) frames I put in yesterday afternoon (like 3 quarter size pieces on each comb guide) - a lot of the brood area had nectar/sugar water in it - so this is probably a case of just feeding too much, and them not having enough comb/space for comb.

I did manage to  find the queen - and the bee numbers were still really high - so I don't think there had been a swarm yet - I pulled her and 3 frames that didn't have any queen cells on them (mix of brood and nectar/honey) and put them in the nuc box - so we'll see what happens.

Should I be feeding the nuc? (yeah, I know, this is kind of like asking "should I stick my finger back in the outlet?")

[cao]

This time of year I don't worry about feeding.  As long as there are flowers blooming and they have some stores to start with they should be fine.

[CrazyTalk]

I'm not seeing any bees coming and going from the nuc hive (with old queen) - is this normal? Do I just not have any foragers yet?

[smokey1]

I would check to see how many bees are in your split. The foragers would have gone back to the old location if you did not move it very far and the nurse bees will still be on the brood. You may have to shake some bees into your nuc.

[cao]

It may take a couple of days for them to get things sorted out and to reassign duties.

[Michael Bush]

Feeding constantly is a common cause of swarming...

[CrazyTalk]

Feeding constantly is a common cause of swarming...

Yeah - I'm getting that now - dingbats who sold me the package said it would need to be fed the whole first year.

The package seems to be pretty active, and building quickly - and there's clover blooming in my yard/where the sheep don't eat it in the pasture - and some sort of yellow flowered weed going (little flowers on a long stalk) - so I think there's plenty of food around. I think leaving them to their business is probably the best course at this point.

[CrazyTalk]

Just wanted to post an update - the nuc with the original package queen is doing well - building out - they're up to 4 or 5 frames of bees (from the original 2 that I stole), and seem to be doing fine - building comb out a little slow, but I think they'll be fine.

I got into the horizontal hive today, the original hive that was about to swarm, and found eggs, and then on the next frame found the queen, so they've now succesfully requeened:


Thanks for the help!


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[GSF]

Pretty ol gal.