Hive I've let bee since last year without inspecting...

erbs honey · April 03, 2017, 11:23:11 PM

They made it through the winter with more bees than any of my other hives (coincidence?)
When we caught their swarm one weekend last year, I put a deep super on top (with no frames) to make it easier to dump the bees into a medium super (with frames).
I didn't get to it until the next weekend and they had built burr comb down from the inner cover, filling the deep super, and were already using it.
So, we left that hive completely alone last year, it essentially being one deep and one medium 10 frame.
Last weekend, I put the deep super (the one with the burr comb built down from the inner cover-it was VERY heavy!) on a hive bottom by itself, and put a medium super with frames on top of the remaining medium-hoping the queen would be in the medium-the goal being to get rid of the deep with burr comb in the easiest manner possible.
I didn't look for the queen because they were acting super pissy and stung me four times through my jacket and I was not using a smoker. I'll try smoke next time, but I think I'll have to requeen. It's still very cool here, but it got to 62 degrees last weekend. I don't imagine I can use a queen from one of my other hives, as it's probably the same genetics and chances are the new queen will be pissy?
So....any comments about my problem hive?

erbs honey · April 04, 2017, 12:07:55 AM

None of my other hives is pissy...maybe it was just too cool? But I did a second split that day and they weren't pissy. Maybe just used to not being bothered?

Acebird · April 04, 2017, 10:00:28 AM

It is not going to work if the inner cover is still there.
Put the box with the frames in it under the hive. Hopefully you can do it again as they move down and fill the top box with honey. At the end of the season you might be able to pull off one or both boxes and harvest the honey. It is all going to depend on whether they can collect enough to make it through next winter. Once you pull off the honey feeding is a possibility.

bwallace23350 · April 04, 2017, 12:33:33 PM

Quote from: erbs honey on April 03, 2017, 11:23:11 PM
They made it through the winter with more bees than any of my other hives (coincidence?)
When we caught their swarm one weekend last year, I put a deep super on top (with no frames) to make it easier to dump the bees into a medium super (with frames).
I didn't get to it until the next weekend and they had built burr comb down from the inner cover, filling the deep super, and were already using it.
So, we left that hive completely alone last year, it essentially being one deep and one medium 10 frame.
Last weekend, I put the deep super (the one with the burr comb built down from the inner cover-it was VERY heavy!) on a hive bottom by itself, and put a medium super with frames on top of the remaining medium-hoping the queen would be in the medium-the goal being to get rid of the deep with burr comb in the easiest manner possible.
I didn't look for the queen because they were acting super pissy and stung me four times through my jacket and I was not using a smoker. I'll try smoke next time, but I think I'll have to requeen. It's still very cool here, but it got to 62 degrees last weekend. I don't imagine I can use a queen from one of my other hives, as it's probably the same genetics and chances are the new queen will be pissy?
So....any comments about my problem hive?

What kind of jacket and what type bees?

10framer · April 04, 2017, 03:37:12 PM

you'll have a hard time requeening with the wild comb on bottom. you need to get rid of the bur comb and make that into a manageable hive, leaving it on top will make it much easier to do that. you need to super down until you see the top of the brood chamber below all that crazy comb then get it off of there. if it were me, i'd just go ahead and put a deep below what you have as soon as the first major flow starts. the bees will start filling from the top down and move the queen to the new comb.

tjc1 · April 04, 2017, 08:11:24 PM

No smoke = pissy bees. Every time I've said, "I'm hardly going into the hive - they don't need smoke", I've sworn afterward that I would never do it again... I've mostly learned the lesson;)

Acebird · April 04, 2017, 09:04:00 PM

Well it depends on what you plan to do. If you plan on going into the brood nest then you are darn fool not to use smoke TMO (that's my opinion). If you are adding a box, I have done it many times without smoke.

erbs honey · April 05, 2017, 12:45:19 AM

It is not going to work if the inner cover is still there. -- But that is what the comb is drawn on...

Put the box with the frames in it under the hive. -- Yes, that's my next step, I should have done that with the first move.

Hopefully you can do it again as they move down and fill the top box with honey. -- I see this will take a little time, but I expected that.

At the end of the season you might be able to pull off one or both boxes and harvest the honey. It is all going to depend on whether they can collect enough to make it through next winter. Once you pull off the honey feeding is a possibility. -- Thanks Acebird!

and I was wearing just a regular beejacket with a veil. Not heavy duty or anything

sc-bee · April 05, 2017, 01:14:04 AM

Yep I would have put a box below the goofy box. Then let them move down into it. If any brood in the messed up box it would have emerged. Then you could have dealt with the mess. Do I have this right.... you split it an it is now on two different stands??? So where is the queen...?
So you are forcing one side to make a queen? So now you may be having queen cells drawn in all the burr mess???

gww · April 05, 2017, 11:59:09 AM

You might just try and drum the bees out like they used to do with skeps and then just get rid of the box now. You might lose the brood but abby warre was a big proponate of destroying brood in his hives and said 4 lbs of bees would still make honey cause they didn't have the stress of feeding the brood.
Cheers
gww

erbs honey · April 08, 2017, 12:18:52 AM

Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2017, 01:14:04 AM
Yep I would have put a box below the goofy box. Then let them move down into it. If any brood in the messed up box it would have emerged. Then you could have dealt with the mess. Do I have this right.... you split it an it is now on two different stands??? So where is the queen...?
So you are forcing one side to make a queen? So now you may be having queen cells drawn in all the burr mess???

You got it right! Fun stuff! Don't know where the queen is. My husband is allergic to bees, so I keep his his involvement level low. He mostly moves heavy boxes for me and builds equipment. Because these bees were being pissy, I didn't want him even moving the boxes, but with a jacket and gloves, I may worry too much. I want to get him one of those breathable Kool jackets. Got any recommendations there?

BeeMaster2 · April 08, 2017, 09:23:53 AM

Quote from: gww on April 05, 2017, 11:59:09 AM
You might just try and drum the bees out like they used to do with skeps and then just get rid of the box now. You might lose the brood but abby warre was a big proponate of destroying brood in his hives and said 4 lbs of bees would still make honey cause they didn't have the stress of feeding the brood.
Cheers
gww

Keep in mind, this create a swarm, not an abscond. So you will still have a hive of 🐝. It will 🐝 a lot easier to work.
Jim

BeeMaster2 · April 08, 2017, 09:26:41 AM

Quote from: erbs honey on April 08, 2017, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2017, 01:14:04 AM
Yep I would have put a box below the goofy box. Then let them move down into it. If any brood in the messed up box it would have emerged. Then you could have dealt with the mess. Do I have this right.... you split it an it is now on two different stands??? So where is the queen...?
So you are forcing one side to make a queen? So now you may be having queen cells drawn in all the burr mess???
You got it right! Fun stuff! Don't know where the queen is. My husband is allergic to bees, so I keep his his involvement level low. He mostly moves heavy boxes for me and builds equipment. Because these bees were being pissy, I didn't want him even moving the boxes, but with a jacket and gloves, I may worry too much. I want to get him one of those breathable Kool jackets. Got any recommendations there?

Check out Mann Lake. I bought one for myself a few years ago and liked enough to get my wife one last year when she started getting serious about working in the hives.
Jim

bwallace23350 · April 10, 2017, 09:57:34 AM

Quote from: erbs honey on April 08, 2017, 12:18:52 AM
Quote from: sc-bee on April 05, 2017, 01:14:04 AM
Yep I would have put a box below the goofy box. Then let them move down into it. If any brood in the messed up box it would have emerged. Then you could have dealt with the mess. Do I have this right.... you split it an it is now on two different stands??? So where is the queen...?
So you are forcing one side to make a queen? So now you may be having queen cells drawn in all the burr mess???
You got it right! Fun stuff! Don't know where the queen is. My husband is allergic to bees, so I keep his his involvement level low. He mostly moves heavy boxes for me and builds equipment. Because these bees were being pissy, I didn't want him even moving the boxes, but with a jacket and gloves, I may worry too much. I want to get him one of those breathable Kool jackets. Got any recommendations there?

I love my ultrabreeze. Taken no stings through the suite.

GSF · April 11, 2017, 08:43:06 AM

Is this the high dollar suit that is cool and sting proof? I think it has a mesh sort of covering with spacers in it.

bwallace23350 · April 11, 2017, 03:56:57 PM

Quote from: GSF on April 11, 2017, 08:43:06 AM
Is this the high dollar suit that is cool and sting proof? I think it has a mesh sort of covering with spacers in it.

I would not say any suite is sting proof but I have had no sting through it yet. But then again I tend to get stung when I am not suited up.

erbs honey · April 12, 2017, 12:08:48 AM

[/quote]
Keep in mind, this create a swarm, not an abscond. So you will still have a hive of 🐝. It will 🐝 a lot easier to work.
Jim
[/quote] Could you elaborate on that? Not sure what you mean.

erbs honey · April 12, 2017, 12:25:26 AM

Quote from: erbs honey on April 03, 2017, 11:23:11 PM
They made it through the winter with more bees than any of my other hives (coincidence?)
When we caught their swarm one weekend last year, I put a deep super on top (with no frames) to make it easier to dump the bees into a medium super (with frames).
I didn't get to it until the next weekend and they had built burr comb down from the inner cover, filling the deep super, and were already using it.
So, we left that hive completely alone last year, it essentially being one deep and one medium 10 frame.
Last weekend, I put the deep super (the one with the burr comb built down from the inner cover-it was VERY heavy!) on a hive bottom by itself, and put a medium super with frames on top of the remaining medium-hoping the queen would be in the medium-the goal being to get rid of the deep with burr comb in the easiest manner possible.
I didn't look for the queen because they were acting super pissy and stung me four times through my jacket and I was not using a smoker. I'll try smoke next time, but I think I'll have to requeen. It's still very cool here, but it got to 62 degrees last weekend. I don't imagine I can use a queen from one of my other hives, as it's probably the same genetics and chances are the new queen will be pissy?
So....any comments about my problem hive?

So, ALL the bees moved to the one deep super with burr comb. I guess I know now where the Queen was. They were so full, I thought they might swarm the next day even though it was supposed to rain! So, we both suited up that night, about 6:00pm, with sweatshirts under our bee jackets. It was cold, so it was fine as far as temperature for us! For the bees, it was very cold and if we were not suited up really well, they would have stung the bejeezus out of us both! They were not happy campers! But, we quickly put the deep with burr comb on top of two medium supers with frames, and come warmer weather (it's unseasonably wet and cold!, it should be warmer by now!) I'll deal with them. I may put the deep super on yet another medium super and search for the queen and replace her. I'll look up the burr combed super and if I see no swarm cells, I may just put a queen excluder below it and let them have the honey-or I may just harvest that super and be done with it!! It will be very interested to see what they have been up to in that super all last year.

BeeMaster2 · April 13, 2017, 12:21:34 AM

Keep in mind, this create a swarm, not an abscond. So you will still have a hive of 🐝. It will 🐝 a lot easier to work.
Jim
[/quote] Could you elaborate on that? Not sure what you mean.

[/quote]

Drumming a hive goes back to the days of skeps. They would place an empty skep on top of another hive and drum the hive. The top skep is over the hole of the bottom hive and the hole in the top skep is blocked off. You drum for about 5 minutes. At first the bees are agitated and then they go into swarm mode and move into the upper skep. It is an old method of creating new hives. I am pretty sure it is explained in Langstroughs "The Hive And The Honey Bee.
Jim

erbs honey · April 13, 2017, 12:29:08 AM

This is a hot hive anyway. I don't want to piss them off even more, plus, it seems like too much work. I'm always looking for easier ways to persuade the bees that they want to do what I would like them to do.

That's one reason I like Michael Bush.